Haredim playing with fire
Yair Lapid
Published: 06.12.11, 11:26
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1. wrong approach
Golan ,   modiin   (12.06.11)
the anti-women shenanigans in the "religious" sector has nothing to do with religion of judaism. This is an attempt by some jackass to gain control over society by playing a gender war. Haredim do it to women and feminists do it to men. Both are destructive to society and self-destructive to the family unit. I will focus on the Haredi issue now. There is NOTHING in Judaism that forbids women from singing, dancing, driving, going to the grocery store or dress "provocatively". (see the talmud on dress code...) There is however some social norms each group places on itself. And that is ok so long as the group does not push it on people outside its social norms. For instance, women in saris might be sexy and provocative, yet it is also classy! and the so called "tzniut" dress of some Haredi women is hot! (yes I have a fetish.) I said some! The separation of the sexes is a Hellenic practice (women were also not allowed to shop at the market) and has nothing to do with Judaism. It is the role of traditional Jews and religious (haredim included) Jews to put an end to these foreign ideas by the Haredim extremists. If these lunatics want to live like Muslim/Greeks that is fine. But they cannot impose these goyish ideas on us. Judaism is our heritage we will not abandon to these apikorsim from the Pale of settlements!
2. Fantastic Article
GR ,   London   (12.06.11)
Exactly right!!
3. What????
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (12.06.11)
Mr. Lapid, the repression of women's voices, looks, etc. may very well make the Israeli public mad, meaning seriously piss them off, but I doubt that too many people would go mad, as in go medically crazy. There are subtle differences just like betweeen "finished" and "complete." If a woman marries the wrong man, she's finished. If she marries the right man, she's complete. If she catches the right man messing around with the wrong woman,those 2 are completely finished. :-)
4. 1000% Correct !!
yaakov ,   TA   (12.06.11)
5. There is no middle ground
American Sabrah ,   Israel   (12.06.11)
I am a law abiding G-d fearing religious citizen of Israel and I have no tolerance for religious fanaticism and imposition of any kind. I am very disgusted by their misogynistic attitude towards their women.Women have played major roles in Jewish society.Many great leaders and prophets in Tanach were women.The Jewish nation was spared from extermination because of women's intuition and good deeds. The Israelite merit their freedom through women. It was the women who refused to participate in the sin of the golden calf. The women were the first to donate their jewelry to the MIshkan and Batei Hamikdash.Queen Esther saved her people from annihilation. Miriam prevented the extinction of the Jewish people by encouraging the men to reunite with their wives.Ruth gave up her life as a princess to join the Jewish people and King David resulted from her.Deborah led the nation into victory from Sisra's army.; Judith bravely assassinated Holofernes thus leading to the miraculous story of Hanukah. Its us women who have to go through 9 agonizing months of pregnancy in order to give our husbands children.We go through the sweat and painstaking labor of raising and providing for our children. It behooves the haredi women to stand up for themselves and put their retrograde oppressors in their places.If it weren't for the women, there would be no continuity of the Jewish nation. I do not want to live in a theocracy and I'd sooner leave if Israel were to merge into one. There has to be a middle ground. There cannot be extremities from either side. Israel is recognizably a Jewish state that promotes Democracy, freedom, and individual rights.Everyone deserves the same equality. The man may be the head but the woman is the neck and she can stir the man in any direction she wants him to go.
6. If Israelies allow Yair Lapid to speak
rebecca ,   Modiin   (12.06.11)
they'll allow anything.
7. Totally incorrect article
Shalom Hartman   (12.06.11)
As far as I'm aware no-one is trying to stop women in the public arena, they are just don't want them being public around them
8. good
E. G. Marsch ,   Nahariya, Israel   (12.06.11)
I'm a nationalistic right-winger and not crazy about Lapid, but I agree with him here. The whole sane public has to fight this battle together.
9. Jewish Unity Israel forever
Trent II ,   Seattle, WA   (12.06.11)
There's no where in the Torah that mentions anything about men and women have to be segregated. There were no mechitzot when the Beit Hamikdash was built at least for the Mishkan and the first Temple under the reign of Shlomo Hamelekh and there will never be one when the third Beit Hamikdash is built. if so how were they setup and why if possible has this not been explained in judaism and if no where in the Torah mentions anything about setting up Mechitzot then why is this continuing? and isn't this consider breaking Torah for anyone to deviate and fabricate G-d's laws by adding to it and/or deleting from it saying this is "holy law we must strictly observe them"?
10. lack of ....
a Jewish woman   (12.06.11)
Yair Lapid is correct regarding separate seating on buses, and about modestly clad women in ads. what he does not understand is that kol isha is a halachic issue and has nothing to do with the other two issues. we are not becoming Iran, G-d forbid, but if we have and we want religious Jewish men to serve in the army (and they are not extremists), then we need to respect their values. now, there values do not include separate seating on buses, nor removing ads that have pictures of modestly clad women, those are non-halachic issues and must be discounted, but kol isha is a halachic issue and needs to be addressed with respect for both the men and the women, in mature and diplomatic manner.
11. lack of knowledge
Aliza ,   Tzfat   (12.06.11)
for a correct perspective see: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4157423,00.html
12. Hareidim panic attacks
Shlomith ,   Melbourne, Australia   (12.06.11)
I found myself on an Israeli bus, where the only available seat was next to a Hareidi man. The look he gave me as I approached was enough to make me feel like a disease-ridden leper, and it prevented me from sitting there. Whist I observe the Torah of Judaism, I have to say that the levels of female/male separation in some communities seem indicative of severe neurosis and mental sickness. The implications of this tradition are that a male's lust is so beyond his own control that it cannot withstand a woman sitting next to him on a bus full of other people. In my travels, always dressed with full modesty, I have greeted men going into shul with "Shabbat shalom" and been completely ignored. I have been lost in Israel and turned to a 'religious' man to ask for directions, while he walked right past me as though I didn't not exist. Thank G-d for the secular Israeli who saw me as a distressed human being, not a sexual threat. Otherwise I might still be sleeping on the street near the airport. Fidelity is important. There is, however, something very wrong with a mindset that never sees a women as a human being, but always as the sexually threatening 'other'. And makes sure she is the one who pays for it by exclusion from many precious rites. To paraphrase an old saying, "If you can't cope with the humans, GET OFF THE BUS." I'm quite sure this neurotic kind of behaviour is not what G-d had in mind when He gave the Torah. Especially when the most oft repeated commandment, (more than "Don't kill", more that "Don't steal"), is repeated 36 TIMES : "Be kind to the stranger amongst you, for you were once strangers in the land of Egypt."
13. #7 - Shalom Hartman - Wrong!
Maurice ,   Montreal   (12.06.11)
There is no selective freedom! Either there is freedom or there is none. Period! No one has the right to limit women's freedom in Bnei Brak. That would open a precedent that would continue to take further rights away from women there and elsewhere. I had to pass through Bnei Brak last year with my sister. I would never have tolerated that she might not walk on some of the sidewalks there! I often don't agree with Mr. Lapid. But his time he is bang on! The Israeli government should be extremely clear about this issue.
14. My sister in laws, who used to come to our home, talk to
meghan ,   israel   (12.06.11)
me about so many things, now wont even look at me, let alone say shalom...why...He joined a yeshiva and is so fanatic, the only one he can touch is his mother, and she is beyond herself with it all. I can respect others feelings and observances...JUST RESPECT MINE! I also dont like sitting near any of them, especially in the summer months!!
15. sorry, just wondering...
eporue ,   europe   (12.06.11)
according to internet sources: (a) singing (kol isha, "nakedness") and (b) modesty (singing/hair cover, sitting next to men) ...are of the same weight. they are both rules in the babylonian talmud... (a) a man should not listen to a singing women, while studying torah (and the example is about a lullaby, not religious/festive singing)... the soldiers were not studying torah and it was a festive event... (b) if singing applies and has to be respected, then how can "modesty" (dress and hair cover) be ruled out or ignored, same book same weight ? if one says "no singing", then one does have also to say "head cover pls"... no ?
16. Reply to # 6 Rebecca - Lapid for PM
Haim ,   TA   (12.06.11)
Not only will we allow him to speak but hopefully Yair Lapid will enter the political arena and will stand up to these lawless haradi thugs. I guess you never heard of democracy? Naturally you will be the first to cry when they evict you from the bus or side walk.
17. Reply # 12 Shlomith i appologise
Haim ,   TA   (12.06.11)
I feel i have to appologise to you. There are extreme religious elements here in Israel who are trying to turn Israel in to a jewish version of Iran. Dont worry we will never give in to these lawless thugs. Hope next time you come to Israel your experience is more pleasent.
18. Kol Isha and Tzahal
Sammy ,   Tivon   (12.06.11)
Lapid is just stirring up trouble. No one tried to shut up women or stop their singing. The soldiers who left the event simply didn't want to be forced to hear women singing. What's the big deal? Why is it permissible to force T HEM to sit there if it's against their religious beliefs? Would the army have fallen apart if they were allowed to remain outside for fifteen minutes? How about a little sanity here??
19. Sarah B has no opinion on this article?
TC   (12.06.11)
20. #15 eporue
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.06.11)
You make spurious connections, then stretch them, and expect people to accept them seriously. This is in most, if not all of your posts. (a) You conveniently ignore the words "while studying Torah". Men in the street are not studying Torah. (b) You both extrapolate and ignore your previous omission (see (a) above) and then continue on as if your comparisons make sense. They cannot as you have altered the thought on which they are based.
21. Lapid
Sane ,   Place   (12.06.11)
Lapid is a rabble-rousing idiot. Ironicaly he uses the example of kippah's- well we all know that his type of religion-hating scum used everything they could, including kidnap, to try and make the Teimani's irreligous. I have nothing but contempt for him and his supporters.
22. Lapid contorts the truth
Besalel ,   Great Neck, NY   (12.06.11)
No one for a moment suggested that women be prevented from singing in public in Israel. Even the most Hareidi of Hareidim has resigned himself to the fact that preventing women from singing in public will never happen. What the controversy was about was whether religious soldiers must remain present for those singings. Respect for each other's values means exactly this: women should be allowed to sing from any stage but any religious soldier can choose not to attend.
23. no 18... why couldnt they just stick their fingers in the...
eporue ,   europe   (12.06.11)
ears for 5 minutes? seriously... there is more behind your "just singing", what the article tried, as usual not very successfully, to explain.. @solomon: i tried to explain the same as the article... maybe its not the explanation which is suboptimal, maybe your ignorance is just too perfect...
24. Doesn't know what he's talking about
Esther ,   Bet Shemesh   (12.06.11)
I'm a woman and have driven through Bnei Brak a number of times. Nobody tried to segregate non-haredi buses, and nobody tried to outlaw female singing. He's blowing things way out of proportion!
25. This Article is About Justice
Randal ,   Little Rock, AR, USA   (12.06.11)
This article is about justice to women. If you are unjust you will never please Hashem. Justice must be or their is no righteousness.
BEAR ,   ZEFAT, ISRAEL   (12.06.11)
LAWRENCE ,   SAFED ISRAEL   (12.06.11)
HEARD......but the question remains ,why did Hashem the almighty give them voices ?? answers on a postcard please.
URBAN POET ,   SAFED ISRAEL   (12.06.11)
There was a haredi who played with fire; which caused him to sink in the mire ; on hearing a young maiden sing his heart when PING and his pants caught on fire.
29. NEEDED:Secular MENA,BIG ISRAEL,pronounceable "abjads",GROWTH
Jerry ,   The Netherlands   (12.06.11)
30. Lapid is a clown much like his dad..
Al   (12.06.11)
arrogant aloof spoiled and obnoxious. There is nothing to be heard from him.
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