what is not understood in the word public? If egged became private for a few groups.. i would not care...these buses r public...i may sit where i want.However i do RESPECT other peoples faith and if there is an empty seat where i can move to so a man can sit down...no problem...

Unfortunately, the secular world are not looking for nice op-ed's to justify segregated buses, rather they are looking for a confrontation with Charedim. Period. If it is not buses, it is cemeteries, they will always look for fodder to keep the confrontation alive.

This is very refreshing, but the problem is that these are PUBLIC bus routes, that is that anyone can use them and in a democratic country there can be no segregation by gender, race, creed, etc. If you are comfortable with this arrangment, and your argument is certainly compelling, then please hire your own buses to ply these routes.

They may have some valid points on their way of life too- lets just become afghanistan

I respect religious feelings and can understand why religious women would prefer segregation, independently from my own personal opinion on that subject. What I don't agree is religious community enforcing the secular majority of Israeli society to go their way. Why should our taxes go on paying especial "needs" for them? Do we cover the especial needs of all other communities? Why should I, as a citizen that does not share their way of life, invest my money in their comfort while my own needs in education, social benefits, etc are being cut to do so? If the religious community has the means to pay by themselves segregated buses, be welcome! I will not be bothering them in their buses and I will be dressing modestly and sit in the back if, for no choice, have to use them. But if they don't, while in the regular social context, they should be respecting "our way" of doing so. Public services, as long as they remain public, don't have to be changed at a high cost just for a minority (even if they are numerous).

Public transport, operated or licensed by the state, cannot be segregated by race, sex, religion or anything else. All the writer's arguments were made by white racists in America in favor of racial segregation. The very presence of such segregation, even if favored by the Haredi women on the buses, is virulently insulting to thee rest of the population, and should not be tolerated by the state. Ed Codish

Written by a man?

When the Haredi set up their own private bus lines, not using Egged (or Dan) buses, and pay for it and operate it themselves for Haredi men and women, they can do what they like but as long as they are using Egged buses, there should be no segregation whatsoever. This is not Judaism and we will not let them bully us, dictate to us or tell us seculars what to do. last time I looked this was a democracy, not a theocracy.

That is a pretty dumb way to look at it. Haredim are intervening more and more in our daily life with their demands and disturbances. Yet the majority in this country is supposed to shut up????????

There is no mitzvah that requires gender segregation. (it is actually a Helenist practice.) I noticed the Haredi women have no problem rubbing elbows and pushing their way in mahane yehuda. Haredi women of the non-mahane yehuda type are raised fearful of men. (Rambam considered this to be anti-Modest... I call it ugly pride.) What Haredi women are proud of it not the segregation but rather the feeling of separation from the others (not men but rather the "Zionists." I guess they never read haRav Kook. There is a mitzva not to humiliate someone. However Haredi practices even against their own kid... well sort of their own kind... humiliate divorced women ("not in our town!") and religious girls from a different stream (all those young students in Bet Shemesh)... and while you can claim this is only a radical minority, you cannot claim that the vast majority do not allow them to 1. continue 2.claim support 3. not condemn it. I do however agree with you about provocations. Yes, there is a reason for provocation... and just like the hilltop youth, the vile Haredim who attack and try to stop road construction and archeological digs should also be tried and punished (and condemned by their community) A community (that often likes to claim "hey those Aharon Yitzhak is not 'our community" or "the Neture karta is a small fringe outside our community") numbering a million still has to live by the laws of the land be they Hizbullah waving Arabs or Baath Party flag loving penguins. And just like the Haredim cannot claim halacha to be their only law, neither can the Arabs claim Shaaria. As for "you can do whatever you want in your own home," I'll remember the secular readers, that does not give you a license to abuse your kids. Neither does it allow the haredim to "only" starve their kids. And yes, the government has a right to even legislate what goes on in our beds. The question however is, just how much. And for that we need a (gevald! secular constitution)

The writer believes that it is possible to keep secular and haredi communities completely separate. But if you read the story of Ms. Rosenblit, you will see that this was not a deliberate provocation as Ehrlich alleges (without evidence). Religious and secular people (figuratively) rub shoulders in Jerusalem all the time. Once freedoms are abused in this manner clearly a dangerous precedent has been set. I can sit here in Tel Aviv as a free secular man and say what does this matter to me? But one only has to invoke the cautionary words of the Catholic priest in WW2, to appreciate the significance of this event - first they came for...This type of intolerance has to be snuffed out now, before it is too late.

I would like to see an article written by a FEMALE haredi, on the subject

Oh yes we should Sir. These are standards not compatible with a modern day society as Israel tends and wishes to portray itself. These are standards from a different age, from a different society, the society that brought disaster upon our people, the Diaspora society, the so called "shtetl" society that caused Jews to be despised, and may I add quite rightly so. These are standards which are not conducive to a clear thinking and normal functioning brain. These are standards which must be both condemned and eradicated from within our midst. This situation is intolerable and these people must be educated towards enlightenment.

they feel comfortable becasue they have been brainwashed. The question is whether it is inherently okay. Why are they at the back and not the front? What happens if some of them do feel upset,do they have a choice? thought not...

Good Grief, Charlie Brown. How many time that I have been on the 40 mehedrin bus and seen women sit up front and I have sat in the back due to lack of space! The whole thing is voluntary! Any idiot who thinks that it is mandatory is an ignoramus b'mehedrin standards!

Private buses operated for the haradi public is the answer. There is no justification for public buses to be segrated, sorry. There are plenty of examples of gedolim both here and in galus that have traveled on mixed buses, planes and trains. If the haradi public wants to be machmir then they need to pay the price for private transportation, hwoever since by and large they will want to use the public transportation system then they have no choice.

As a public bus company, everyone has has the right to ride the "internal route" with out being forced to sit in segregated seating. EVEN THE CHEIF ASHKENAZI AND SEPHARDI RABBI'S OPPOSE SEGREGATED BUSES (PERIOD). This is a free democratic country not a heredi religious state.

The writer must no have taken these buses during rush hour, when the front of the buses are empty, or young boys or men are sitting, while the back section is full, women with children, older women are standing. Why is that right? I think, haredi women are brain washed to think that this segregation is because women are better than men and highly honored. I have never seen any evidence of that!

1. I take offense at the implication you make in your opinion piece which reads: "A woman who does not adhere to the mitzvahs will never understand the embarrassment that a haredi woman feels when she is forced to rub up against men in a crowded bus." Please do allow me to gently remind you that all Bnot Israel, Bnot Cohen v'Banot Levi irrespective of whether or not they are secular or religious or haredi wants, desires or needs a total stranger who is a male to rub up against her. To imply that Haredi women have a "more better special Kadusha" than any other Bat Israel is devisive. Sir let us then agree that ALL BNOT ISRAEL are Keter Kedusha (crown of holiness) of Israel. No one daughter of Israel is better than another. 2. regarding your comments in the secular provocation section of your editorial. a. no daughter of Israel ever sits in "the wrong place". It is her right to sit where-ever she wishes it is your responsibilty as a man to understand that. It is your responsibility as a man to honor her and ask others to do the same simply because she is a daughter of Israel. 3. If a bus route is a public bus route that is a bus routed funded by the State of Israel then according to the legal judgment that bus route may not be segregated to serve the strict interests of a few. 4. Whic is all to say: if you want segregation buy private buses and do as you wish. Stop using government funding to promote your sectarian needs. Thank you sharing your views with us and thank you for allowing me to share my views with you. Wishing you Hannukah Sameach! Brachot l'Or!

Fine. Pay for your own buses, and do whatever you want. Meanwhile, you don't work, you don't pay taxes, you bite the hand that feeds you, and you expect everyone else to adhere to your nonsense? You SHOULD feel humiliated...every time you look in the mirror and see your own laziness and moral hypocrisy! Feel free to pony up some cash for your own buses...and then take them FAR FAR AWAY!! Israeli society is at its breaking point with these people and their twisted nonsense. Segregation is already applied in the ghettos you have created for yourself, and you can keep it there!! Leave the buses that *I* pay for and *my* army alone or get out!

Here is an op-ed that says hardi women, who so many liberals claim to be protecting, dont want their kind of protection. liberals are so busy implementing freedoms for women, that they think they can decide what freedom is, and according to liberals, freedom is what liberal society decides it is. No one else is qualified. The segregated bus lines run from Chardi area to chardi area. If they run via non-dati areas they are not segregated. Liberals have no reason to be on these buses, other than to create trouble.

Hire private buses. It is illegal to segregate public functions that are paid for by tax money. The Haredi dont pay taxes anyways, so who are they to tell we who do pay taxes that the functions we pay for are now controlled by them wo dont pay taxes. Freedom of religion is an issue that needs to be protected. And therefore, freedom for segregated buses should also be protected....but only if they are privately hired. If they are public, its one religions against another. Nobody has a right to enforce public policy of their religion on somebody else. And public buses that go through Haredi neighborhoods also have chilonim living in them. Its a bus for all its citizens, even if the neighborhoods it runs is 98% Haredi and 2% secular. Have a problem with it....hire private buses, nobody will complain.

Maybe this "secular world" doesn't like having to support a bunch of people, who not only consider themselves spiritually superior, but who, if not confronted about buses and/or cemeteries, seem to want to dictate their way of life to the very people whose despised, secular lifestyle produces the very taxes on which they so ungratefully depend. I have a question: What would happen, if Seculars decided that enough is enough and to let the Religious take care of themselves???? Handouts are insidious. They turn into entitlements.....

If only it were the case that the Haredi community "merely seeks to live within its own boundaries, in line with its faith", as described in this reasonable-sounding article. Unfortunately, this is very far from the truth. The haredim don't want to live and let live; they want to enforce their codes on everyone else. They thrown rocks at people who drive on shabbat, force advertisers to avoid using images of women in mixed cities like Bet Shemesh and Jerusalem, physycally or verbally attack women who make the mistake of wandering into their neighborhood not dressed like a nun. While the "extremists" do the dirty work, the rest of them don't utter a word of condemnation.

the problematic point is that the haredim want to apply thise rules on the PUBLIC buses. If they want applicate the rules and i can understand they have to use thei rpersonal /private buses where they can do what they want . In the torah is written first of all to RESPECT the other and doing segregation on public busses theiy are missing the MAIN sense of our law

invaders, the Jews piss all over themselves because some people want to ride in these buses. So what! Get over it, you idiots. Ride a donkey cart for all care. I couldnt care less what you ride and whom you ride. I say that to all be they secular or orthodox. Jesus.. we Jews are just plain ass stupid.

what the writer left out was the case of the religious woman, riding on a bus late at night, who just happened to be sitting near the driver. when a bunch of yeshiva students got on, and tried to force her to move to the back. the incidents of spitting, stone throwing and other violence in hareidi neighborhoods are neither the result of internal values nor are they just secular provocations. dina d'malkhuta dina!

I suggest that if Chareidim want segregated buses, they hire (that is, pay a rental fee) for these private buses. We all pay taxes to support public transportation and on public buses, there can be no gender segregation. I refuse to pay for Chareidi encroachment on my (and my wife's) religious lifestyle. We too, are religious. My wife covers her hair and dresses modestly. If she is uncomfortable rubbing kness with a man, either of them can agree to move to the back of the bus. Don't force my wife to move to the back