Jewish Scene
Haredi solution: 'Kosher' bus company
Akiva Novick
Published: 21.12.11, 08:24
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31. Beware of hypocrisy
Nathan ,   Milano   (12.21.11)
All citizens - we readers - should ask for a global political solution, which assumes all kind of segregations (gender, ethnic, cultural and religious ones) as a crime. Comma. Enough crying by newspapers. Let's go out to the street and ask for it!
32. Secular Totalitarian minds,who can not understand Justice!
Keren ,   IL-BR   (12.21.11)
This iniciative is very good and correct and follows the Highest Spirit of Justice,what some people in the secular world can not grasp.Unfortunately! It is going to be very funny to see "seculars"dressing modestly and, humbly, sitting in the back of these buses just to get a free ride. Ha,ha!That will be funny,indeed!
33. I think you are ALL MAD
exUK ,   Tel Aviv   (12.21.11)
Obsessive Compulsive Religious Disorder,is a self limiting disease.Let them do whatever they want.But because it is an enclosed society,the women cannot get away.The Haredi dont welcome outsiders and dont have back leavers or anyone who doesn't toe the line in their own society.The millionaires have more money than sense.It should be spent more wisely.Where did it come from anyway?
34. #23 why?
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (12.21.11)
Many swimming pools are segregated because women demand to swim without men, even if it infringes my human rights and humiliates me. Why is that? The whole anti-Haredi sting with the buses was based on the premise that Haredi woman feel segregated. Did you ask anyone what they prefer? The private bus lines are a perfect solution. Some guy spends his money like he wants to. There will be more buses, so the frequency of buses goes up and crowding goes down. Why is this a problem? Or is it just you want to force the Haredim to act like you do and do what you want? What next?
35. stop looking at this from a secular point of view
zionist forever   (12.21.11)
The one issue that people keep overlooking is the women who ride theses busses share the same beliefs as the men. Most of them like the idea of segregation just as much as the men do because they don't want to be sitting or standing next to men who are not their husbands. They are haredi men and haredi women who chose to ride these busses and in this case if its being privately funded then I can't see what grounds anybody can reasonably object on if its their culture and their money then on what grounds can anybody seriously object? This is not male oppression of women its about culture. Haredi culture is not secular culture and seculars have no more right to dictate how haredi should live their lives than haredi have to dictate to secular how to live theirs. Neither side has a right to judge.
36. haredi solution: kosher bus company
karen ,   hertzilay, israel   (12.21.11)
what a joke...this is not a solution it is further empowering a minority to segragate...this is almost 2012....someone, or better yet, some country, should stand up for all its citizens and stop this nonsense, the days of rosa parks have passed, women are humans and should not be placed in the back of anything, as men should not...if the ultra orthodox are so concerned with seeing a woman or having to sit next to a woman that is not his wife, he should stay home! i made allyah here and thought that this country was progressive...until i lived here and see that it is not, this group of citizens will be the downfall of this great land...non ultra orthodox people need to have their voices heard, they do not run the country, they are the minority and they, only they will lead this country to civil war...i feel so terrible that this is the way it is, and these millionaires sending so much money a month...why so women will have to sit at the back of the bus...take that money, feed children, aid the country in things that matter to all...give to the police forces, the fire departments...children who only eat one meal a day, who have no warm clothes, people who struggle with rent....that is where it is important to assist....the mentality is so 17th century it scares me....
37. Great Idea but....
Moshe ,   Jerusalem   (12.21.11)
Sorry I don't understand it, all that money every month can feed the poor, no more beggers on the streets and for cancer research programs etc You rich guys are really sick.
38. #17, I don't know a single woman who would agree with you...
Henry from New York ,   USA   (12.21.11)
but I will just blame it on cultural differences. By that I mean the difference between the kharedi culture and today's Western culture.
39. Egged should provide "Apartheid" Buses!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (12.21.11)
One for Haredi men, one for Haredi women and one for the rest of the population all at the same time time with everyone paying the same fare!
40. isnt it gender equality, finally ?
eporue ,   europe   (12.21.11)
when i was a child i also wanted to sit in the front, and if possible on that elevated seat... rarely were men on the bus and if then they would often stand in the aisle regardless of free seats... because it was for that superior muscular creation such a chicken women thing to sit... this wish to SIT in the FRONT on the bus is so girlie, sissy... and this screaming about it really no less :)
41. Stupid!
Babishka ,   USA/Mea Shearim   (12.21.11)
Streets in Jerusalem are congested enough as it is, they want to bring in more buses just to have their way? Public separation is IN NO WAY required by halachah!
42. Private vs. Public Buslines
Mitchell Cohen ,   Gush Etzion, Israel   (12.21.11)
On a public bus line, EVERYBODY can sit where ever he/she wants. That is the law. A private bus line is a different story and, agree or disagree with sex-segregated seating (I disagree), these private bus companies can do run their lines however they want....
43. PERFECT! Stop subsidizing their buses with our taxes!
(12.21.11)
44. every equal year women sit in the front, every unequal year
eporue ,   europe   (12.21.11)
men sit in the front... would be cheapest and fair... just still somewhat of an unusual segegration... but...
45. what happens when
mea   (12.21.11)
secular women ride the Haredi lines to enforce the law. You cannot have a segregated line, period.
46. 43
zionist forever   (12.21.11)
These busses are not being paid for with taxes they are being funded by private donors. Not costing taxpayers a single Shekel.
47. What's the Difference
TSB ,   Clifton, NJ USA   (12.21.11)
Assuming it is all private, what is the difference between these buses and an all-women's gym? There are plenty of those, they take any woman's money to join, but not men. Isn't that discrmiination?
48. Naomi @ 3, why?
leo ,   usa   (12.21.11)
First, I am sure Haredis who are for gender segregation would rather walk than get on un-segregated bus and I've seen it happen. Second, I am sure not all Haredis even support these segregationist rules. Bottom line, there must be no segregation on public buses whether Naomi likes it or not. However, you are welcome to open your own private Haredi-free bus company.
49. 38 Henry,if you expand your circle ..
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (12.21.11)
of friends in different societies than yours ,you will discover more than one woman who agrees with17. Happy Hanuka.
50. Whine less,breathe more...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (12.21.11)
by keeping your nose out of Haredi affairs
51. If publicly funded, could Hilonim ride too?
Orly ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.21.11)
... provided that we adhere to the restrictions of the private enterprise? I ask only because Egged busses do not run in some parts of East Jerusalem, despite being part of a public transit in a city recognized by municipality and state as one united area under a single autority. However, there is government funding for "East Jerusalemites" to have their own busline. The line runs directly from a health clinic I patronize and the kindergarten where I pick up my daughter. Yet when I tried to take this line I was refused entry and the police would not even take a complaint. And I thought this was a democracy. I hope this recommendation is not just another step to apartheid rule where my children are told they can only ride the Hebrew bus, as can Arabs and other Gentiles, but may not ride the Arab/Muslim line "which is just for them" making them second class citizens in their own country, a Jewish/Hebrew country. I don't want to have to expalain to my children why there is yet another line for "the others," who have the democratic right to ride on "our" busses but is a service in which my children may not partake.
52. Separate busses for hat types, colour socks, peyes' length..
Jerry ,   The Netherlands   (12.21.11)
53. #36 These women are not being segregated
Keren ,   IL-BR   (12.21.11)
This is in*your* mind and not in theirs. Why do some people feel the compulsion to change others in order to fit themselves?uh?
54. What a waste!
(12.21.11)
Why would anyone be willing to put up money for something so ridiculous? There is money for this but not for education? Seriously?
55. Ora , 50
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.21.11)
But charidim 'keep" their noses in OUR affairs ! They want to rule OUR life , they want our women to be dressed in their way , they insult Jewish girls in Beth Shemes , they oppose our lifestyle , they oppose the Gay parades , etc etc ....
56. Not only Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger
Vladimir ,   Yerushalayim   (12.21.11)
I also rush to support the blessed initiative. These five millionaires are really noble men. In the long run we'll show the seculars (those of them who hate us) who supports whom. We are not parasites. And we have the right to live according to our ancient traditions, according to the Torah laws.
57. good luck amen!
(12.21.11)
58. #35
David ,   Federal Way US   (12.21.11)
I have read all the comments, and yours is by far the most insightful and tolerant. The whole of Torah is "what is hateful to you don not do to another..." It seems that most of those that write have a distinct hatred for the Haredim, yet no real understanding of who and what they are. I hope that this solution is implemented, and will lead to other solutions as well, as those who have the means in the Haredi community will take upon themselves the acts of chesed that will solve other problems within the community. What good does all this posturing by the majority do for Israel as a whole, but reinforce the negative that all Jews are intolerant? While I don't agree with a lot that the Haredi do, I will defend their right to do so, for if they lose that right, how far behind are mine? That is the real issue folks; you who scream about restricting anothers right or culture are in danger of giving up your own, for there is always someone more vocal than you waiting to strip you of your rights. Who will stand up for you then in that day? Think about it...
59. This is one issue of many.
Jerusalem   (12.21.11)
Where's it going to end? You keep hearing these words: Halacha, Talmud, Torah, maybe Mishna. And, it seems like there are differences very well even in the "religious" communities. Meantime, there's all the other business that needs to be taken care of. These kinds of issues are obviously creating "conflict". That's not saying these religious groups don't have their merit bacause when it get's to standards they sure are giving it their best to follow and we know they are doing it for the glory of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Afterall, it's also for the blessing and not the curse. The Rabbinate and Chief Rabbis are actively involved too. Thank God for them. For "Zion's sake", you would hope that a decision could be made that would have all parties appeased. What part in the Jewish Scripture is being referenced for the halacha ruling for gender separation and modesty? Those would be interesting Scriptures to study to make an evaluation as to the degree of authenticity in these cases.
60. #49, actually when I played online games for a long while I
Henry from New York ,   USA   (12.21.11)
got to know many people from other far-off countries. There was a Malay who had similar views, but that's about it. As well, given the nature of my own city I didn't know a single person who could fit into the White/Anglo-Saxon/Protestant category (save my dad) and most of my friends either weren't originally from the US or were first generation Americans.
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