Heroism or fanaticism?
Donniel Hartman
Published: 27.12.11, 10:10
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DAVID ,   JUDEA   (12.27.11)
It is strange to see how many Hellenistic Jews through the ages celebrate their defeat at hands of the few that hold on to our Torah. At the tone of this article, one can see that today's Hellenists are no different in their worship of foreign cultures and dislike of Torah Judaism. Not a day goes by or Ynet and most of our Hellenist media will demonize or attack the same people who today refuse to buy into their Hellenist worldview. Without a doubt victory will be for the ones who are not afraid to be true to their own inheritance and will refuse to be corrupted by todays Hellenists.
2. If the writer is a rabbi, I am a buddhist ....
Trumpeldor ,   eurabia   (12.27.11)
3. Maccabees had Hellenist Generals it its army
Golan ,   modiin   (12.27.11)
Please learn history. Dositheus was a Hellenist Jew who lost his arm fighting Gorgias (a Seleucid general). Dositheus was one of Judah the Maccabee's commanders and he was not the only one. This nonsense myth the the Hashmoneans were extremists is not only ignorant but political. The Maccabees had detractors who were Hellenists as well as detractors who were religious. However the miracle of the Hashmonean brothers was that they were able to unite the majority of the Jewish people for one common purpose (Jewish independence) and here is where you are right. The Hashmonean revolt is Zionist.
4. The last paragraph.....
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (12.27.11)
I think, the rabbis missed this one. The end result of dividing the garment equally, doesn't make sense. It leaves both sides with a useless rag and that doesn't sound like much of a solution. What's even worse is the implication that both sides should be happy with a rag and accept it as equitable. I'm sorry, but “that just ain't gonna get it.” Somebody should knock some sense into their heads, make them negotiate and, at least, keep the garment in one piece. The rabbis should have taught them to timeshare it. Having people happy part of the time seems much better than having everybody unhappy all the time.
5. I don't see any heroism
Jarda ,   Czech Republic   (12.27.11)
on theft.
6. Dr. Donniel
Abraham Nachmias ,   Petach Tikva IL   (12.27.11)
Dr. Donniel criticizer as a whole lot religious Zionists and Haredim is in itself not correct. Unless he throws under one blanket all the people that would for sure call him Dr. Donniel and not Rabbi Donniel. He should analyze what his position is today, if the one of the Zealots or the one of the Hellenists. He should also think twice about the numbers he throws, 80% of the population? How many of them really want a liberal state? Maybe 80% in Tel Aviv but not in the rest of the country. But after all, we all know who Dr. Donniel represents, I would love him to know it also!
7. Well -
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (12.27.11)
I Quote - What distinguishes the fanatic from the hero is not the nature of the values for which they are willing to fight but the uncompromising nature of that fight. While a hero is willing to sacrifice, in particular himself, heroism requires a measure of proportionality between the value and its cost. It is when cost is transformed into, “at any cost,” in particular to others, that the qualities of the fanatic emerge. there has developed an ethos of heroism vis-à-vis the nature and quality of our lives within our borders, a vision of the future of Israel that is alien and alienating to the majority of Israelis. Comment - The Mayority of People dont have The Vision, and HASHEM dont give Visions to the Mayority The Hero is the one that gives the Ultimate sacrifice for the Vision of HASHEM in this case, HASHEMS Vision for Israel. Those who oppose those Heroes Values of HASHEM, within the society - could they then be called the Traitors of bouth HASHEM anf HIS Heros ?. Does then those so called Traitors then call the Heros for Fanatics as a defence ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2vGBY7nXx8 There will always be two sides in a society - Malachi 4 "For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall be stubble. And the day that cometh shall burn them up," saith the LORD of hosts, "that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in His wings; and ye shall go forth and grow up as calves from the stall. 3And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this," saith the LORD of hosts. 4"Remember ye the Law of Moses, My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. 5"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. 6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse." Take your pic !. Arn.Sweden
Devorah   (12.27.11)
So, THE TORAH is not good enough for you, and you want a new torah instead which caters to your rebellion against G-D in terms of the land convenants He made with us. Of course, you made no mention of that. And of course, your doll story is your way of saying that OUR land should be divided up regardless of what Torah says. What a slap in the face to the G-D of Israel! If you've read Arn's comment #7, read it again and then again. Hartman, this is not about you and your twisted New Age ideologies. It never was, and it never will be. As Arn stated, this is about G-D's vision for Israel; not yours, not mine, not anybody's, and He reveals Himself to whomsoever He chooses whenever and however He chooses. Apparently, He did not choose you.
9. The Rambam was a Hellenist
Guy ,   Rehovot, Israel   (12.27.11)
Re: STRANGE CELEBRATION How can one speak out of the side of their mouths against Hellenism and act like this is something foreign to Jewish values today. The Rambam was a complete Hellenist. One could argue that he believed in Aristotle and Plato more than in Isaiah (even if with tongue in cheek), so what is this nonsense of trying to create enemies within Judaism by the use of the word "Hellenist"? We definitely have divisions without our own people, but it has nothing to do with who is Hellenistic and who isn't.
10. Nobody alone possesses all truth
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (12.27.11)
Let us learn from oneanother.
11. The Author And the Shalom Hartman Center
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim   (12.27.11)
B"H It should be clear to everyone that Donniel Hartman and his Shalom Hartman Center are outside of Judaism, with a declared goal to modify Torah to fit society rather than to do the Jewish thing and modify society to fit Torah. This is also of course an anti-Jewish piece in as much as Torah can not and must not be defined as "fanatic". And no, "rabbi" Hartman, Hanukah is not the Zionist holiday par excellence. It is a Jewish holiday par excellence and no one is interested in your "Jewish democratic liberal" society. What we want on the Land of Israel is Torah, not your innovations and prohibited “interfaith” relations!
12. latrun
Zivron   (12.27.11)
The Palmach without ranks were great heroes with after me and purity of arms somewhat followed.Ben Gurion was fanatical about attacking Latrun and many lives were lost the attackks failed.But Ramle and Lod were captured the Arabs expected an attack on Latrun.
13. Heroism
robert ,   tampa, usa   (12.27.11)
I guess this makes Palestinian suicide bombers heroes.
14. Fanatics or fanaticsm
yosi   (12.27.11)
Timidity?', my foot. Stupididy is a better description for the 80% of israeli society. That was all that Mao, Hitler, Stalin, needed to destroy half the world, their own included. And please, don't count on the rabbis, as they are not part of the solution, they are the problem.
15. guy is idiot
joe sombrero ,   usa   (12.27.11)
First again i am secular not that religous but the Land is important not only people. I do not condone the religous actions of late but to combine settlers and the Heredi is highly suspect. Why are you not condeming the left for anything selling out thier country to other countries by funding Left wing NGOs destroying democacy are you trying to get USAID aid maybe? But ti demonize a whole sector and political ideology by you is wrong.
16. Where do I begin
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (12.27.11)
Yes those Jews living and fighting for JUDEA and SAMARIA are heros. And the extreme leftists like this 'Rabbi' are the fanatics that wish to impose their minority view points on the rest of us. Standing up against the leftist Judicial Dictatorship that we have does take guts. Especially considering the rest of the world demands that they ignore both Jewish as well as international laws.
17. Right title.
Ber ,   Yahud   (12.27.11)
If you are going to change the Torah don't call yourself a rabbi, maybe priest or imam. 2nd don't ever confuse the mordern state, and it's agendas with Judaism bc it is not the same, and if you secular ppl need a tradition so badly, then get your own, and don't attack Judaism and then steal it's history and culture for a secular state which may as well be any secular state.
18. Hard to march forward with traitorist arabs, leftists in the
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (12.27.11)
Knesset who cannot see the vision G-d gave the Jews for the land of Israel. Then you have the not-supreme court who loves the arabs and hates the Jews and thinks that settlers are the enemy of Israel. The settlers are the heroes of Israel but leftists are unable to comprehend the truth, they are deep in their thought of how only they are right.
19. Correction to my post #8
Devorah   (12.27.11)
I meant "garment" story, not doll story. Don't know where that came from - Maybe King Solomon and the baby because that is what I was thinking about when I read the story.
20. Is Hartman totally unaware of Israeli elections & polls?
Chaim ,   Israel   (12.28.11)
Another mind boggling dumb article from Hartman. Hartman writes as if 80% of Israeli Jews feel we should cede Judea and Samaria. In fact, a recent highly publicized figure proves the truth is the exact opposite. Almost 80% of Israeli Jews OPPOSE ceding Judea and Samaria. Moreover, the Knesset Parties securing the vast majority of Israeli votes also oppose Hartman's agenda. What is going on with Hartman? Is he completely unaware of Israeli elections and polls?
21. 100% AGREE with Devorah #8
YOSEF22ADAR ,   Greece   (12.28.11)
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