Jewish Scene
Haredim reject Beit Shemesh division plan
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 01.01.12, 09:09
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18 Talkbacks for this article
1. Again:remember that 40 years ago nobody dreamt of a future
tom ,   tel aviv   (01.01.12)
"Palestine" for a "Palestinian People" in the Land of Israel. This is a small breach in a huge dam. Plug it NOW!
2. Common denominator
Michael   (01.01.12)
Over the past week or two, one subtle message I have been reading .Is all sectors have one thing in common. They all want what they want and no one cares about theother sides' concerns. No society can exist if the mentatlity is all about taking. If this attitude is not fixed soon it really won't matter. Because we will all be guilty of destroying our future.
3. Seculars also needed because...
Sandy ,   Bet Shemesh   (01.01.12)
... we pay the bulk of the property taxes in Bet Shemesh. Who's going to fund the haredi community's basic needs if the city is split? Certainly not the large percentage of our haredi neighbors who get exemptions from paying arnona because of their large families. Just ask Interior Minister Eli Yishai from Shas... he's already (shamelessly) made this argument against splitting the city.
4. Besides someone has to pay the taxes!
Ellen ,   Israel/USA   (01.01.12)
5. Anti-Zionists need to go to the National Insurance Institute
Shimon ,   Israel   (01.01.12)
This is a problem. No group can live as parasites off the rest of the people. All fincial and civil ervices to anti-zionists must be totally shut off. No support for their yeshivas, no health packages, no nada. ALL citizens must sign a statement that they support the state of Israel. This includes Jews. Criminal offenders, treasonists (Jews Arabs or otherwise) or those who don't sign allegience get long jail terms or are deported. This is the only sensible way to run a country.
6. Having the choice
Yael Schlichting ,   Raubling - Germany   (01.01.12)
No, we are not caught between a rock and a hard place! The Zealots are too extreme and the "extreme secular", both are too extreme. I would like to ask, if Jews in Israel are aware of what a Jewish society and a Jewish state mean! 30 years ago, The society in Israel gave more freedom to individuals, than many citizens in western countries, like Germany or France had. Even in the U.S. there are enough corners, where "freedom" is spelled, as if it was a foreign word. We still have the chance to make our dream of a Jewish state true. But extreme secularism is not the mainstream nor is it the Zealots. We once agreed on orthodoxy to be the benchmark and of course, all the other religious affiliations are okay, too. We once agreed, that there are two things that we should keep apart: G-d an what is going on on earth! In order to run this country we need we have to deal with very profane issues. And definitely the length of our skirts or how or if at all we tied our headscarf, is not an issue. I will not allow any man to tell me how compliant I shall be! Neither a Zealot nor anybody else. The true issue is the social order! How it is tied up with religion, how is it tied up with our daily lives and what comes first?
7. What Cowardice and Chutzpah!
Prof B ,   NYC, USA   (01.01.12)
The more moderate Haredi want to use the seculars as human shields for the violence produced by other Haredi? Not only is this sheer cowardice and chutzpah, it strikes me as anti-Torah. It certainly smacks of contempt for the lives and well-being of those who choose not to belong to a cult masquerading as the Jewish faith. In fact, this whole cowardly idea of using human shields among those who diagree with you in religious matters and the unabashed contempt for those different from you is more like Islamism than Judaism. I submit that these Haredim are just Islamists in Jewish ghetto disguise.
8. THIS is all making GOOD Hareidim look bad!!!
Riva Schertzman ,   Betar ilit, Israel   (01.01.12)
These INSANE fringe groups do not represent the average Hareidi who deplores violence against other Jews in order to inforce their version of Judiasm- as it forbids in the Torah. As far as i'm concerned, these people are not frum and this Holocost thing is in really bad taste! In general, we should all strive to relate to each other with AVAHAT YISROEL, AHAVAT CHIMAM-LOVE YOUR FELLOW JEW!!! This is G-d's real policy! ANYTHING ELSE IS NOT YIDDISHKITE! As far as separation issues, this does exist, but it is by cooperation of men and women who live in very religious neighborhoods, and can't be imposed on normally "mixed "-(religious and non) bus lines. Yet, non Hareidim who come into these ultra orthodox neighborhoods should respect the norm of the place but certainly should always be treated kindly. Basically it's an issue of both sides respecting each other.
9. 6 Yael "the true issue is the social ..
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (01.01.12)
order. Right. BUT,order,without ethics?
10. Neither "rejection" nor "acceptance" is theirs to wield!
tom ,   tel aviv   (01.01.12)
11. 9 Haredim ethics of course? A chilul Hashem oxymoron!
Thinking Jew ,   Israel   (01.01.12)
12. Haredim confuse cult enslavement with Torah: chilul Hashem
Israeil Jew   (01.01.12)
13. they want to live in secular Jordan (that's what they r say)
so fine by me, go on then move to Jordan and we'll see how the Jordanians manage with your tomfoolery!
14. productive members of society
alan ash ,   nyc ny   (01.01.12)
when they pay taxes and become productive members of society looking and working towards of society, instead of shunning it and the robbonim agreeing that it should be shunned because that is the proper derech . they will be shooting themselves in the foot and the charedim are going to prove their worthlesness
15. Brit shemesh
Miriam greenfield ,   Chicago, usa   (01.01.12)
Mt repines to the outrageous behavior of these chareidim is that I will no longer give tzedakka to any chareidim meshulach or Mossad. Even if they are not the perpetrators of the deplorable acts they are not vocal in denunciation. If enough American Jews spoke with their checkbooks things could change.
16. Demographics means that "separation" is pointless
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (01.01.12)
Those proposing separation between the haredim and those who are not haredi ignore the demographic reality. Wherever one draws the geographic line, population pressure means the haredi will soon enough challenge that line. (The case of the Bedouin provides a parallel example.) Those who believe in separation also assume the haredim will be economically and socially autonomous and self-sufficient, but they'll remain a burden on those not haredi - the ones who pay the taxes, build the infrastructure, provide the social services, etc.
17. Sickarikim
R ,   Israel   (01.02.12)
"...national-religion received land for a school on our expense" 1) The seculars were there first, and the school was there first. But the Sicarii want that area and think that terrorizing little gradeschool girls is the way to obtain it. 2) 30,000 housing units will be built in Beit Shemesh for haredim only. The working seculars and national religious cannot find affordable housing but nothing is being done for them.
18. Don't separate us
Sharon ,   Phoenix   (01.03.12)
"In such a case, the situation will be much more difficult and our problems with the zealots will only become worse. Today it's safe to say that in some way, the seculars protect us from the zealots, because they also draw fire and fight it more than us." One, we need your money. Two, we're too cowardly to fight these "bad people" ourselves; better they should attack someone else.
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