Ynet-Gesher poll POORLY reflect public opinion as to seating segregation by sex on PUBLIC buses. NO mention of the fact that ALL the Israeli PUBLIC pays for the bus line. I suspect that many or even most respondents could disregard the inequity problem in PUBLIC transportation due to the wording ...'KOSHER' bus line ...what exactly is that?... bus lines NOT mentioned in the NOT argued or presented in the Talmud.. moshe

Where have these people been hiding? Were they seriously ill or abroad on an extended trip? How is it possible NOT to have an opinion?

a nation's democracy and equality is readily assessed by how it treats its women...Israel fails the test. 47% of a nation does not want segregation and that is good? No It is not. In the US, segregating by race and by religion was sufficient to cause a civil war and then major changes in order to make all peoples equal...I for one will send dndo more money to Israel till it changes, and I encourage my friend also to withdraw support so long as women are subgegated to a bunch of nutters.

At least most women bathe daily and are less likely to smell.

Typical manipulation of numbers. Only 18% of the respondents are fully in favour of these buses, with "no reservations". I think that most of the 26% that responded "only in haredi neighbourhoods" did not mean that they were in favour of the buses. They just tolerate it as long as it doesn't affect them. As for the remaining 7%, they kind of side-stepped the question. But this is not even the issue here. There should be a poll conducted for WOMEN ONLY to see how enthusiastic they are (not) about these buses! Discrimination against a minority, even when the majority supports it, is still wrong. After all, maybe 51% or more of Americans supported the segregation laws against African Americans! Maybe 51% or more of Germans supported the laws against Jews in the 1930s. Maybe 51% or more of many countries around the world were against giving women the right to vote. Etc, etc. So even if the numbers were not so blatantly manipulated, this piece still misses the point in my humble opinion.

Obviously not the results YNet fans were expecting

Its no longer an issue of looking at women, but that of coming into phyysical contact with them. I think women should sit in the front of the bus.

51% say ok, 47% say no. The difference is within the 4.4% sampling error. It’s a wash. Do the math.

The thing is, the question was ""Are 'kosher' bus lines for HAREDIM legitimate?" Not if they are legitimate in general. If the question was were they legitimate IN GENERAL I think there would have been a different result.

Judaism . a. fit or allowed to be eaten or used, according to the dietary or ceremonial laws: kosher meat; kosher dishes; a kosher tallith. b. adhering to the laws governing such fitness: a kosher restaurant. a bus is not food- it probably smells of food- or body odor- but that is not kosher...

Excellent article.Shows balance and objectivity.

Right side of seats segregated into front and back, left side sit where you will. In America it's considered good manner for men to offer women their seats at the front and even offer to stand in the back if there are no other seats.

the next "public" bus is segregated and she doesn't want to be relegated to the back. She's "non-kosher public"?

Why is this so difficult to solve? If the Haredim want to fund their own bus lines, hospitals, schools and so on and segregate them, that's fine with me. The point is that they cannot enforce their belief systems on PUBLIC property which includes PUBLIC transportation, sidewalks, theatres and the like. Susan

....are they Glatt Kosher. And the fuel? Was the petrol pumped under Circle K, absolutely Kosher conditions, by certified, supervised, and inspected experts with proper and certified controls in order to make sure that the crude oil was sent to the cracking plant (the refinery) has also been certified as Kosher, and in strictly Kosher tanker trucks, owned by and driven by Orthodox Jews, and refined into certified Kosher Petrol, which is then transported under Kosher Inspection conditions to Certified Kosher Pertol Stations where it is pumped into the tanks of the Glatt Kosher busses, by orthodox Jews under approprriate supervision in order to insure that there is no break in the process, lest it contaminate at some point, the passengers. And then there are the roads. Has anyone considered the Tarmac? Is it treif? OY!

Why not have some segragated buses and some that are non-segragated and clearly marked as such? There are Haredim out there that do work and pay taxes and not only that they pay to get on the bus I'm sure. Same goes for the more secular bus riders. This way, all who have contributed to the bus company can get what they need. And getting on whichever bus will be a CHOICE. One of each kind of bus should be on all routes or according to area demand. That's my two cents and lint.

Those secular elements think Haredim will leave them alone, so they are trying to throw them a bone. But they are forgetting a barking dog can also bite. This is one of the troubles with secular in Israel, they are mellow and wishy washy. Of course I understand it -- every one of them still has a dos uncle or grandmother somewhere, so they are not yet ready to come out against religion with full force. This wishy washiness hurts, it is a hard pill to swallow.

It is completely fascistic to proclaim in the name of freedom or democracy that you are "protecting" the "rights" of women by forcing them to sit next to men. It is also hypocrosy in the extreme. You are simply trying to legislate coercion on a segment of the population "heredim" who have religious rules against sitting mixed. I betcha if the druze had the same rule no one would be forcing them to sit together in the name of all women around the world. It's a sham and you all know it. It proves that even stupid Israelis can be anti semites True democracy (except in fascist countries) protect the rights of minorities..ie haredim. Their rights go beyond populist opinion polls. Hence, Jews get protected in America even if 99% of the population are not Jewish.and do not understand. PS: To the moron who cited the definition of kosher and thinks it only relates to food, go back to school and learn a little Judaism PLEASE. Kosher defines as "permitted or allowed." It pertains to greater areas than your ignorance understands, not merely food.

Seperate buses with security guards will make the whole kefael of back of bus obsolete. Or at least a mehitza in the middle also with big security as the haredim are our hope with their demographic power.One day they be involved in the defense of israel physically as well as spiritually.

Some day Israel will have a constitution and laws will be written down precisely, but even without it, Kosher is not a law, never was and never will be. With treif I am a better Jew than you are because I go by culture and history, not by religion and genes. I am a democrat, what are you?

among the Followers of the Imaginary Friend?! You have just opened a Pandora's Box here, Mister! So true are your observations that I am convinced all Rebbe Ovadia's councellors are having sleepless night... I know I am. Well done , Gideon!

In this case just tell me: do you accept me (a politically very right-wing Jew), although "only" my dad is Jewish (from a strong "racial" line), so I'm socalled patrilineal? Accept me as Jewish if I reagrd myself as one? Let's hear.

I am a Jew and you are one of the ignoramus's I was writing about. I don't even believe that you know very much about Jewsih law or even understand the English language if you proclaim yourself a "democrat". That "sir" is a political party in America as I am a member of the Likud here in Israel. Did you mean that you support democracy maybe? I am also an attorney and a I happen to know that Kosher IS a law: it depends on on whether you are speaking from Israel or the Exile which is obviously from where YOU are speaking. You really shouldn't engage in debates that you know nothing about. BTW: The protection of minority rights is not a State law matter. In America it is a federal matter.

When I wrote my post I was essentially writing to people such as yourself who have not a clue what Judaism is and in your case may not even be a Jew .. You do not have to observe Kashrus, that's your perogative but to proclaim yourself a "cultural" Jew is as meaningless as when you called yourself a "democrat" which is a political party in America. One assumes that you meant that you were a believer in democracy which is a concept.. In any event, Mr California, you do not know the laws of Israel or the laws of halacha to even understand the meaning of kashrut. In Israel we do have laws pertaining to same unlike in the Exile where you live as a better Jew, culturally and historically, whatever that means. In essence you are simply treif.

There are only handful of kosher busses on a small number of routes and even the routes that operate kosher busses also operate mixed busses so people have a choice. As long as people have a choice what justification do seculars have to object just because its not the way they do things? Neither seculas or haredi have the right to judge the other by their own standard and the country belongs to both equally and both are entitled to live by their own culture. Until there is acceptance then things will just get worse as the wider haredi community start supporting the radicals because they feel persecuted which will anger the seculars and eventually its going to get violent. Solve this problem before it to late and gets out of hand.

they could easily ( and they do so in places where public transportation is a big hassle due to crime ) ride cabs. It's us, secular public, who is humbly asking to enter their home, not vice versa. We might not like the home, but you know, we didn't make it happen. The only way how we can make these religious orthodox company owned lines less painful is to earn enough to place decent bus line with secular state taxes. In the meantime we can say what we want, but haredi own the bus, no matter who says what. Perhaps as a coin of appreciation to women we could agree on a reverse order, "women ride in front". And thus complete transforming our homeland into Lilliputia of Mr. Gulliver. Congratulations! Thanks to zi boldest Israeli press in zi whole wide world we were finally helped to the vast knowledge as to why the egg must be eaten from the pointy end. No joke is intended. Zee pride of the whole nation of Israel is on the line, ane will flinch we noth!

...farshtunkener Pandora's Box. Completely made and sold by the best and most holy folks in the quadrant. Each and every an observant and certified operator. Glatt to the nines, in every manner and certified absolutelymento Kosher.Not a wimpy Parve-ven-ue in the lot. But....AHA. The String. That string AND the tape to say nada about the paper and process used and by whom in the manufacture of those items. ALL suspect and I believe totally TREIF. And that is the sausage in the pan, Bunky. Wait. Cancel that. Bad optics. And that is just the Box.

And I know for sure you know even less mimeni. If you want to know what Cultural Jew is formally, find it by Googling this term. It is an organized movement encompassing tens of thousands of people in the U.S. alone. Clearly, you can have culture without belonging to an organization. On the other hand, religion and genes do not suffice for having culture. Can you understand this, as a start to your enlightenment?

By "accept" I mean the combined total of recognize through learning + respect it + identify with as one of the group + are emotionally attached to + will defend yourself and others against opponents. Race doesn't matter at all, genetic background doesn't matter. You can be an atheist or a Christian or Muslim in your background, it matters not. You can respect religion but not discriminate other religions. It matters not that you are a right wing person because I recognize your freedom of speech and of adhering to any political views, as long as you grant me this freedom also. Hope I answered your question. Thank you for asking.