Opinion
Classic Zionism in Migron
David Ha'ivri
Published: 11.02.12, 13:47
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31. #20. Jimi from fictional Palestine.
Chaim ,   Israel   (02.12.12)
#20 Jimi from fictional Palestine. Israel is so obviously the legitimate owner of Judea and Samaria that not one person in the entire P.A. has the courage to publicly debate MK Danny Ayalon on the issue. Ayalon issued a clear challenge and the P.A. cowers behind meaningless rhetoric. Deep down inside, even the "Palestinians" know Judea and Samaria belong to Israel.
32. HaIvri's hero ben yosef was an historical joke
Berl k   (02.12.12)
Shlomo ben Yosef: show up in 1938 and decides that revenge killings of Arabs will bring on a Jewish state. Tried to blow up an Arab bus but couldn't get his hand grenade to work - a joke of a terrorist. Arrested and hanged by the British. His accomplices not executed were a mentally deranged man and an under age youth. Some hero! A metaphor for the settlement movement.
33. The Arrogance of these settler thieves is a disgrace
Dovid ,   Los Angeles   (02.12.12)
34. God bless the Settlers!
Taz Man ,   USA   (02.12.12)
Keep building on God's promised land. God bless, Israel and His Jerusalem! A Christian Zionist
35. # 20
Birdi ,   Israel not Palestine   (02.12.12)
It is Israel & not Palestine. It will always be Israel & we will always own the land & live on our land.
36. # 12
(02.12.12)
My spelling mistakes. Stolen should read Stolden . I am sure that you will now be able to understand the issue.If not just refer to the Israeli high court decision regarding Migron {Migraine}.
37. Response to Aviela of Migron
A righteous Jew   (02.12.12)
Aviela, I wish to be brief. 1. I support you and your goals (my goals) with all my heart and with every fibre of my body. 2. I want you to know that the route or way is long and you need and must have much strength, stamina and willpower 3. Disregard and look down on the fanatics denigrating you (us) with their contemptible disgusting words, espeically the snob # 9 who with all certainty is an intemperate, irate old self-hating Jew in my view (but the others are probably that, too). They are a dieing breed in Israel as their power is slipping through their fingers like sand, thank God! day by day. They are collectively with one leg already in the grave, demographic facts take care of that thankful matter. Aviela, YOU (we) are the future and as David says no one can take this away from us and do a damned thing about it!!!
38. To Michael #26
FO ,   Belgium   (02.12.12)
Thank you Michael for giving me an answer instead of Money time #8. Allow me to telling you the following. You are surely aware of the existence of UN Resolution 242, that became the cornerstone for diplomacy in the Middle-East. The author of said resolution was Prof. Eugene Rostow who took into consideration the resolutions of the League of Nations from 1922, that became International Law (and reaffirmed by Article 80 of UN Charter) when he wrote "withdrawal from territories" and not "from THE territories". It is not me intention to give here a lecture about this subject, but I would advise you, dear Michael, to read the articles written by Rostow about this matter, where he also explains that Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention can't be applied to Judea and Samaria. Rostow's articles are available on Internet.
39. #21
English and Hebrew ,   Israel   (02.12.12)
"I like it & I am coming", thats really special for somebody from Migraine. Compares well with "not tonight dear I have a headache".
40. # 37
David. ,   Jerusalem ,Israel   (02.12.12)
Yes, you will fight to OUR last drop of blood for what you think are your god given rights. Your attitude will lead us to destruction.I will only fight for what is lawful and just.
41. To: No. 40
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (02.12.12)
Point to one thing in international law and convention that is not entirely lawful and just with respect to Israel's settlement of Judea and Samaria. As you launch yourself upon that futile exercise, do keep in mind that Jordan's 1954 Citizenship Law bestowed Jordanian citizenship upon all West Bank Arabs AND THEIR PROGENY irrevocably. Oh, Jordan tried to rescind that law, but The Hague ruled that an irrevocable grant of citizenship is precisely that -- irrevocable. The Jordanians may have stepped in it, big time -- they in fact did precisely that -- but that does not in any way change the status of Arabs residing in the West Bank -- they are Jordanian citizens. When the great day that Israel FINALLY reaches the inevitable reality and annexes Judea and Samaria, its Jordanian residents will be repatriated to the country of their citizenship. It would appear that the G-d of Israel really does never sleep nor slumber. Very lawful and even more just. Israel does not need a terrorist mob in its midst. Can you spell "Fogel family?" Probably not.
42. # 41
Ehud ,   Haifa, Israel   (02.12.12)
All those words dont change the simple fact, that Migron was unlawfully built on privately owned [Arab] land. Migron is illegal, and the Israeli high court has deemed it so.
43. #38 FO
Michael ,   Haifa   (02.12.12)
The matter is not as clear cut as you would have us believe and there are differing versions of Resolution 242.The first article of Resolution 242 is an object of controversy because of differences in wording between the English and the French versions of the text. The English version talks about Israeli withdrawal "from territories...", while the French version talks about Israeli withdrawal "from the territories" (des territories...). Thus, the addition of the word "the" in the French version implies that Israel is required to withdraw from all the occupied territories. Why, in your learned opinion, does one version take precedence over the other, and I ask for your learned opinion rather your subjective opinion.
44. slows the minds
cristian ,   argentina   (02.12.12)
how much longer must remember the holocaust? already spent over 60 years ,does it mean that burnt in egypt and syria committed today and now will be judged 60 years later? holocausts daily of abuse of power or crime today and now,will be judged 60 years later too? why do men judge those who commit atrocities when they can not be judged and do not in the same time of the aberrations? there is also something that i do not understand,do the jews want to bury or raise the nazis forever? if not for the jews i had not heard anything about these murderers but as the jews are appointed permanently i know those killers,for what? remember the evil and never happen again? if burnt continue to be committed,would not it be logical to resurrect those who performed good deeds and bury forever those who commited evil actions to inspire everyone?
45. #42 epic FAIL
(02.12.12)
Migron was not built on private land. When asked to prove Arab ownership, the foreign-funded NGOs withdrew their claim. you FAIL.
46. the shomron -amen
alan ash ,   nyc ny   (02.12.12)
what a gift hashem has given us. let us build grow and take advantage of the kindness thatr hashem has provided to live ang grow,, am yisrael chai,
47. #45 "epic fail" - what are you 15 years old?
dovid ,   los angeles   (02.12.12)
48. #45
(02.12.12)
So you disagree with the high court ruling.You probably play make believe as well.
49. Share and divide the land
Berl k   (02.12.12)
It is the ancestral homeland of my people, the Jews. History, linguistics and more recently DNA testing prove it. The same means of evidence particularly DNA testing allow Palestinians to make the same claim. Our ancestors both pissed in the same river and their descendants should now find a way to divide and share. Who must move, who remains in place, who gets to return and to where are what rational grown ups determine when they negotiate in good faith. And last I looked Hashem or Allah has chosen to remain silent - so leave her out of it
50. #41
Jonathan ,   MN/US   (02.12.12)
Sarah IF Israel annexes the west bank, by international law you WILL have to give the Palestinians Israeli citizenship. as for your "irrevocable" citizenship law, I have yet to find any record of any hague convention that declared it that. And even if its true, whats going to stop Jordan from simply not letting the Palestinians in? last i checked all Jordan has to do to stop any forced migration sceme the settlers have is to move several tank divisions to their border with Israel and say "turn around or we'll open fire". Last I checked theres no law aganst that, And if the UN is as pro-palestinian as 90% of the people on this site claim they won't help you. And if you try that stunt with Gaza you will be facing heavly armed resistance. I'd appriciate it if you responded to all my points.
51. #49. Share & divide some other land. Like Saudi Arabia.
Chaim ,   Israel   (02.12.12)
I'm all in favor of sharing and dividing land. But not Israel; the sole tiny Homeland of the Jewish people. How about Saudi Arabia, Syria etc.?
52. @Chaim,30: 2 Letters, BS
PaulZion ,   Israel   (02.12.12)
The case has not really been debated. Although international law experts on one side claim the legality of the occupation, others, no less eminent, claim otherwise. You cannot choose only those whose tune is music to your ears. As a rule, a UN resolution was passed and generally accepted, well before 1967, that basically stated that conquered lands could no longer be considered automatically annexed by international law. No incontrovertibity at all, period. There goes your raison d'etre, guy. The question of whether the land is ours or not, is no longer relevant. The issue is whether these anarchists adhere to the decisions of the democratically elected government and its ministers, or not, and they don't. Therefore they are anarchists and outlaws.
53. glib responses from the other side -chaim et al
ben mordecai ,   Borough Park 1964   (02.12.12)
In these talkbacks the respondents on the left have been thoughtful in addressing the sobering reality of a less than friendly palestinian population that we cannot move anywhere else and who none of us would like to give full citizenship in a unified state. We offer less than perfect interim solutions that give hope to maintaining Israel as a Jewish and democratic state and aaddressing their desire for dignity and a state of their own. You guys proclaim that expulsion or apartheid like or Jim Crow like solutions can work and believe that the Arabs and the world are going to sit back and take it. alternatively you think god will somehow intervene directly or send the mashiach (maybe the one who never wanted to visit Israel and is buried not far from my grandfather in Queens NY ). All the above ain't gonna hapen so get real and talk tachlis in a thoughtful and respectful manner.
54. Hashems Land
zivron   (02.13.12)
Eretzyisroel is Hashems land promised to the jews under conditions . Just treatment of the poor widowed women and orphans and the non oppression of strangers and egyptions for the children of isreal where strangers in Egypt. The Messiach has not arrived israel is a pikuach nefesh jewish state and the militirization of the jordan valley by the idf is enough . No more migrons.
55. #53
Jonathan ,   MN/US   (02.13.12)
Thats what i've been trying to tell them
56. #48 epic FAIL again
(02.13.12)
The High Court ruled that the Jewish homes must be destroyed because the AG refused to defend the Jews. The NGOs and Arab "owner" then demanded compensation from the state. The state responded that no compensation would be paid without proof of ownership. The Arab "owner" and the NGOs withdrew the suit because they have no proof of ownership. You FAIL.
57. Armchair zionists are also heroes.
Istvan ,   BUDAPEST HUNGARY   (02.13.12)
Armchair zionists, like myself, in the galut also must defend themselves from hordes of antisemites, and there is no IDF to protect. Theodor Herzl was also an armchair zionist in Budapest. So, I am proud to be an armchair zionist. ( It was a joke only ! )
58. there sure are a lot of anti-ZIonists
pinchas ,   boston   (02.13.12)
in TA and Haifa. This is the stereotype and the talkbacks prove it. Still, as elections show, many in TA and Haifa do support the Likkud and the "manifest destiny" of classical ZIonism. If and when the day comes when that is not the case, then I predict there will be a) civil war or b) secession and the founding of a separate state called Judea-Samaria.
59. I reside in a Yishuv in Yehuda. The
RobertHaymond ,   Israel/Canada   (02.14.12)
men and women who reside there are Jews with a purpose. You can see their determination in their faces, in how they hold themselves, how they move and step. They are proud Jews, warriors guided our ancient myths and histories. Even the most moderate amongst them not only carry weapons but know how to use them.hild born in the Yishuv is considered a blessing and an act of revenge upon a world which wanted (and still wants) to exterminate us. The children are brought up to be patriots, to guard and ensure the land as was prophesized. The Jewish citizens of Yehuda (and Shomrun) form the backbone and sould of the nation.
60. #58 pinchas, its their anit-Mitzvah Ha eretz
Kerwood Derby ,   Frostbite Falls, MN   (02.14.12)
The man-made "ism" Zionism I understand to be a way to instill the values of the land in a secular group. But, even that doesn't take, even at Ynet (notice the de-Yehudaizing phrase "West Bank" in this article's headline on the front page). When I think of the good things of Zionism, I love what I find that is old. You don't need Zionism to love the land yet those who despise it and the values which are old appear to be against their own people, whether erev rav or zeir.
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