I hope that now our politician for the sake of chair, will not mess the future of our country and it's people for second time. In this elections I am going to vote who is going to take care of womans rights and the one who voes not to join hands int government with religious parties...

I agree, except for a small, small percentage of individuals who are really scholars Haredim SHOULD be serving in the army OR doing MEANINGFUL national service. However, there is almost an equal number of secular who manage to avoid army service for a myriad of reasons. If we are cracking down, let's crack down on EVERYONE!

For those who think Hashem was looking the other way when the State was created, and therefore didn't notice. Know that the State, whether you like it or not, is part of the plan that you think by learning Torah alone you will bring. Serve your people and your Gd, and let's on with the redemption.

It is written in the Torah that if sombody is Frightened/Scared, He is exused from Military Service, in order that his state of Mind/Personality will not spread to His fellows. Arn.Sweden.

I, too, have searched Torah and there is absolutely NOTHING that exempts either scholars or so-called holy people from fighting for their country. Just the reverse, actually, with examples of religious people defending their homeland. To fail to enlist under the false aegis of 'religious grounds' just shows how parasitical and hypocritical the Haredim are. And if they dare to claim that it is for religious reasons, then they are just proving what many of us TRUE Jews know -- that Hasidism is not a form of Judaism but a cult. Why? Because they change the laws to suit their wishes. And REAL Jews know that one of the very worst sins we can commit in Judaism is to change the laws. Ignoring Jewish law isn't a 'sin', but changing it makes one not merely a sinner, but apostate to the worst degree. It is the red line that makes you no longer Jewish. (This is ignoring the fact that so many of them actually worship the dead Rabbi Schneerson as the Messiah even though he did not rebuild the Temple or do any of the other things that the true Messiah must do. And BTW, worship of anyone beside Hashem is also a red line that separates Jews from everyone else.) If certain Haredim feel that they cannot kill when necessary, there are plenty of other jobs in the IDF that they can perform. So Hasidim, are you REAL Jews, or just an apostate cult that poses as Jewish to get special attention?

Ellen, so what is difference between the "Torah Scholars" and a scholar studying for his degree? The is a time to study and there is a time to serve your country. The country that provides you the right to be a Jew, a Muslim, a Christian, an agnostic or atheist. We all have the right to live the lives we chose but we all have the obligation to serve the country that protects us! Let's be honest. Observing the Shabbat, praying 3 times a day and wearing a kippah does NOT make you a good person. Your behavior and attitude to others is what counts!

Now you must be very busy implementing another plank in Yisrael Beiteinu's platform: now you have even more datai to employ to destroy the lives of their brothers and siters in the land of their forefather's own name.

I will tell what it leads to: 1) Religious leaders will issue the law that going to the army is prohibited (anyway) 2) Kids will not go there and will better go to the prison 3) Prisons will be full (actually they are full now by people like this, imagine you 'll add another hundred thousands students) I think that the decision (not to call them to the army) was made by the first leaders of the country and should stand. Thousands of years have proven that it is not good to mess around with this religion. You just don't know how stubborn they are and how persistent they will be.

Leiberman - Since when did you think you were a gadol hador and knew how to pasken? When you know "kol hatorah kulah" we can ask you what the torah says about it, but you cannot know by the limited torah you know or perhaps hear in shul, No one says everyone is a scholar and deserves deferment, and everyone should ask their own rav who DOES know Daas Torah what is right for them, but the law should be in place for those who deserve it - perhaps they should consult with the gedolei hador how to enact ways in which it should not be abused. Even Ben Gurion respected and gave in to the Chazon Ish even when he did not understand why he was against girls being forced to go to the army, among other things he gave in to the Gadol Hador about at the time. Know what you should try to make decisions about, and what is beyond your scope of knowledge and ability to "pasken".

... consider the boys amongst them that go into the army superior to other soldiers in general, and superior to women soldiers in particular. I know why they feel they deserve special privileges not granted to other soldiers. What I do not understand is why other people, esp. people not living in Israel, feel this is right. Enlighten me.

If you want all the religious to join the army then make the army an army of g-d, Where the absolute commander if the IDF is strictly religious and follow all Torah laws about war etc..there I can almost guarantee every single Haredi person will join and protect everyone in Israel with their life!!!

The word is "bandwagon," not "bang wagon." Learn English, please, if you plan to use it.

everything is from hashem including all civil service work --do we deny hashem. it is all for am yisrael

Bang wagons do exist and are used in the worlds oldest profession.

One of those being that religious freedom and deference to said freedoms is enshrined in Israeli law and IDF Directives. And the fact remains that the military has failed miserably at providing even those basic rights. Kosher food has always been a joke in army kitchens, and that only changed with Catering - and that's being rolled back in most locations due to rising costs. Badatz (Mehadrin Kosher) food stocks exist seemingly at random the more you depart from the center of the country. And the Proper Integration Directive, AKA Hashiluv Hara'ui? Try well and truly implementing that in a military that's mostly secular and see where that gets you. It's a joke, really. Much like the small kitchenettes that are supposed to be dairy only, but where ignorant soldiers with no knowledge or care for Kashrut do as they please, thus effectively denying them to religious Jewish comrades. I've had the chance to be in more than one location in my service where you can, at best, eat only bread and canned if you want to observe Kashrut. And this is what most religious soldiers face *today*. That's not something the more observant religious Jews who actually want to *stay* religious as they were before the service can stand. Until recently, the sole exception was the Netzah Yehuda regiment for combat troops, and more recently the *very* limited Shachar programs for non-combat units. The Shachar test pilots are nice, but they're not expanded. The same with Netzah Yehuda. It's all, in the end, about *money*. Because it means the military will have to change. It's reached the point where an ultra-Orthodox multi-millionaire is donating millions *to the army* to attempt to expand the Shachar programs. Here's the reality - us Orthodox soldiers aren't *better*. We don't think we're the creme-de-la-creme. We just want our basic rights preserved, something the military fails routinely at doing. And the ultra-Orthodox have *more* requirements, yes. That's to be expected, seeing as they want to *stay* ultra-Orthodox rather than being reeducated into a more secular mindset - that, by and large, is what they fear. And that fear is justified. And yes, some definitely observe Kol Isha, that women singing arouses men and should be avoided by said men if they're observant Jews. That is *not* the same as saying that they're better than the women, not by a long shot. And when more secular Jews in Israel work these basics out, including for those of us Orthodox Jews who served, serve, and will serve in the future, maybe I'll take this talk against Haredim not serving more seriously. Because, let's be clear - you're failing *us* already, routinely. We face concerns you simply don't care about, are ignorant about, or just smirk over, but they exist just the same. If and when you accept them for what they are, we'll have something worth talking about.