Opinion
The great Atlantic Divide
Yishai Fleisher
Published: 19.03.12, 11:23
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1. constructive approach
E. G. Marsch ,   Nahariya, Israel   (03.19.12)
I laud Mr. Fleisher's positive, constructive approach. There are unfortunately too many hollow, apathetic Jews in my life--mostly American but also some Israeli ones--so that I'm kind of jaded and negative these days. I'm surrounded by ignorance and apathy. Even attempting to start a conversation on the Iran-nukes issue sputters and fails. Maybe it's just my bad luck, the people I know.
2. Reality
michaelpielet ,   israel   (03.19.12)
t There are 3 million Jews in the U.S. and due to assimilation, a very low birthrate the numbers are declining everyday. Israel a country constantly at war, with a very high cost of living, ridiculous price of housing, contentious society that basically does not welcome new immigrants, rather questions their sanity. Aliyah will only come from the national religious who are commited to Judaism and are commited to the idea of the Jewish people living in their own land.
3. all people are the same
eli   (03.19.12)
speaking a different language or watching different TV shows do not make us different. when world realizes this we will live in peace with one mankind.
4. What about other divides?!
Buskila ,   South America   (03.19.12)
Between Southern Europe Jews. the Mizrahi Jews and most importantly the Sephardic Jews and the rest ? Though our writer was too specific, and for cause, he was not all encomparring in his vision. One has to be quite clear when we talk about Return To Ou Homeland, for whom and on what circumstances. Do not use the Argentinians and the Frenches occurences (horrible and very tragic as they were and are) as an excuse for enticing, but to challenge one 's own reason d'etre a Jew, and what that means in everyone life.
5. If everyone were like the author...
tom ,   PA, USA   (03.19.12)
...there would be no divide. However understanding and appreciation are in short supply between American and Israeli Jews. There's also increasing concern amongst a significant number of American Jews that Israel is becoming too militaristic, too antagonistic, and too right-wing (obviously American Jews who believe this don't post much on this talkboard.) Several times I've seen this talkboard linked to various American websites. Usually concerning topics where Americans, and America, are being bashed (if people here haven't figured it out, such linking is being done to drive a wedge between the US and Israel.) It may feel good to lash out at Israel's last ally, the nation currently doing the most to stop Iran's nuclear program, but it's not very bright. Like I said, appreciation is in short supply.
6. Assimilationist US Jews need to stop pretending that
Elmer ,   gantryelm@yahoo.com   (03.19.12)
Assimilationist US Jews need to stop pretending that political liberalism is a form of Judaism. They must abandon their pagan pseudo-religion of political libersalism and return to Judaism.
7. The divide: WE DON"T CARE!
american ,   USA   (03.19.12)
We are AMERICANS, PERIOD!
8. hozrim ha baytah
portia ,   san diego   (03.19.12)
Just yesterday my family and I spent all day at the Misrad HaKlita conference for returning Israeli's. I am a former Olah hadashah, my husband is toshav hozer, and we have two young boys. The representative at the aaliyah booth asked us (surprisingly) why we want to go back? Isn't life here in the US good for them? Don't we have Jewish schools? Isn't life safer and calmer here? Are we ready for our children to grow up with the "Israeli" mentality? My answers are defined precisely by her questions: Life is good here, we DO have Jewish schools, and life is somewhat safer; but my children will grow up AMERICAN. And I dream of them being ISRAELI. Should not more people like myself and my husband offer up our children and our livelihood, where will the Jewish state be? While there is a sentiment of caution to not patronize North American Jews, however, it remains a truth: until we are living IN Israel, supporting her and weaving her intricate part of world history, we may end up living assimilated lives dreaming of a Jewish Jerusalem.
9. Put 3 Jews in a room...
StevieT ,   USA   (03.19.12)
and the only way to get a consensus is for two to leave. This always seemed charming to me until thestakes got too high fgor it to be cute any more. Consensus and respect bring unity and that is what will be required in todays challenging environment.
10. #5 Tom-your appreciation for Israel is ALWAYSin short supply
(03.19.12)
Half the time I've seen your posts I've wondered (until you recently added the "USA") if your location "PA" was for Palestinian Authority. What are you even doing in this conversation?
11. unity is unachievable but keep trying
moron ,   galut   (03.19.12)
the jews have too many enemies to give up on eachother completely
12. Aliyah from the US will always be difficult
BH ,   Iowa   (03.19.12)
Like Israel we are a refuge country. In the US we are free, safe and prosperous. We have land and big homes, but more importantly we have nothing from which to escape. Right now the focus should be on getting European Jews to safety (US or Israel). Their governments refuse to protect them and they have no means to protect themselves.
13. Israelis can stop making fun of American accents for starter
(03.19.12)
s. If Americans made fun of the Israelis' accents when they spoke English, I don't think you'd be equally amused. By the way, it's: Apple Pie, not Apples Pie. Date cookies, not Dates cookies. I realize that Israelis must specify that it's Blueberries Pie so that people don't think it's just ONE blueberry in the pie and the rest glucose syrup and food coloring. They used THREE blueberries in that pie.
14. the great evil divides
cristian ,   argentina   (03.19.12)
people with common sense escapes from the wars,hatred,inequality,injustice, miseries,selfishness,lies, so the hell and logically seeks places with peace,respect,equality,justice,wealth,altruism,true so heaven on earth,i living argentine hell how many times i want to live in paradise? and often criticize u.s. foreign policy but as i would like to live in that country with many freedoms because they attack outside but defend inside
15. Why ???
eva goldschmidt ,   Heidelberg, Germany   (03.19.12)
Why should we give up a safe and comfortable life to live in a country whose population does not appreciate new immigrants because it is already overcrowded and why should we go to a country whose inhabitants have incredible rude manners? Goldschmidt
16. #6 it's not just an American Jewish disease. Same here.
(03.20.12)
please refer to: shalom achshav, meretz, b'tzelem, and all of that ilk. I wish it were isolated in the US. Then it could have the possibility of quarrantine. Here, at least have a laugh about it: http://youtu.be/3o80mvbxvtA
17. the money rules
cristian ,   argentina   (03.20.12)
the world´s most powerful people president barak obama usa,prime minister vladimir putin russia,president hu jintao china,chancellor angela merkel germany,co chair bill gates usa,king abdullah bin abdul aziz al saud saudi arabia,pope benedict 16 vatican,chairman ben bernanke usa,founder mark zuckerberg usa,prime minister david cameron uk,president sonia gandhi india,president mario draghi european central bank,president nicolas sarkozy france,premier wen jiabao china,governor zhou xiaochuan people´s bank china,secretary hillary clinton usa,mayor michael blooberg usa,secretary timothy geithner usa,prime minister manmohan singh india,ceo warren buffett usa,silvio berlusconi italy,president dilma rousseff brazil,chairman carlos slim mexico,ceo rupert murdoch usa,prime minister benjamin netanyahu israel,grand ayatollah ali hoseini khamenei iran,ceo michael duke usa,ceo jeffrey immelt usa,secretary zhou yongkang china,co founder sergey brin usa,co founder larry page usa,oil minister ali al naimi saudi arabia,president rostam ghasemi iran,chairman lou jiwei china,chief ashfaq parvez pakistan,chairman mukesh ambani india,governor masaaki shirakawa japan,supreme leader kim jong il north korea,secretary ban ki moon usa,managing christine lagarde usa then how can they organize wars yet? how can they speak about crisis? how can they have such masks and disguises? the propaganda is allpowerful and almighty in this world, the only thing i know they do not follow the leader,they are playing the dirty game where do not serve others but just serve themselves
18. Some important points.
Jules   (03.20.12)
Israel was created as a country for Jewish refugees, to put it simply - to protect Jewish people around the world from genocide and persecution. Which means: those who wanted to live as free people on their own land (as Hatikva says), have implemented that goal. Since then, other people have joined the Zionist project: Druze, Circassians, Bedouins, even Slavs. Which means that a new nation has formed: ISRAELIS. That's where the young country must stand. It is not difficult to maintain Jewish majority, but honestly: are the Druze (or Rusim) less patriotic than, say, Haredim are ? It is time to declare to the whole world that a new nation has formed: ISRAELIS. And this nation has a great future. IMHO.
19. Big brave Haredim
Scarborough1414 ,   Scarborough, Canada   (03.20.12)
For every successful immigrant experience (by moving to Israel) there are several unsuccessful ones. The stories told by would-be olim could fill a thick novel. I'll give you just one; the Margolies family in Beit Shemesh. Modern-Orthodox Jews from the U.S. who just wanted to live a Jewish life. What happens? Their eight-year old daughter Na'amah was called horrible names and badly frightened by misguided Hareidim and for a while the girl refused to go to school because of the "bad man". Other Hareidim in town were unsympathetic; on Israeli TV they said things like "the little b___ deserved it". If that's what being frum leads to, I don't want it. Israelis grouse about the "big, bad Ay-rabs", but the sense of betrayal is a lot worse when the abuse comes from your own. Add to that arrogant columnists like Tzvi Fishman (recently on hiatus from Arutz Sheva) who said that olim who leave Israel to return to country of origin are "weak" and the land of Israel "vomited them out". Nice guy, I don't think. I should make aliyah just to get insulted by frummies, attacked by Ay-rabs, subjected to high taxes and low wages, and denied a job because I'm an "American" (this is even more absurd, I'm Canadian. When I point that out to Israelis, they say "same thing"). At least here Jewish people are proud of their learning. In Israel people are proud of their ignorance. Not everyone, but a lot. You want us to come there to live? Make us feel welcome. I'm not talking about a 21-gun salute (would be nice), but a little common courtesy (rare in Israel) would go a long way.
20. Without the end of islam theJewish Lands days may B numbered
(03.20.12)
their birthrate is in the hundreds of millions, we have to look at reality realistically. I pray to G-d to bring comfort & aid to Israel, every single day of my life. Enough is Enough. but if there is no solution - perhaps it is time to consider moving the entire country to a safe place.
21. I've been there
Leah Goldsmith ,   Itamar Israel   (03.20.12)
There is a song by Justin Timberlake called "What goes around comes around"- It's a great title for how history indeed repeats itself and how- no matter how much apathy you may encounter in the US or #5's of different types you meet- the neshamot that got out of Egypt at the time of the Exodus were 1 in 50. Indeed those that enjoy a full life in G-d's intended Land for the Jewish people today are that 1 in 50. Make the right choice now American Jews!
22. The sad reality
Old Oleh   (03.20.12)
Having lived here in Israel for over 24 years now, I can sadly say that it is an awful place to live. The mentality could not be further from anglo saxon mentality and Olim Hadashim that arrive here thinking that the country wishes to welcome them soon realize that they are looked down on by "real" Israeli who just seem them as suckers who can be parted from their dollars/pounds whatever currency. Israel is an extremely harsh country - socially, politically and not least - financially. In short - if you have lots of money and you sympathise with Israel's (ever more militant) ideaology, then come and live here. Otherwise, much better to stay in your western homelands and enjoy a good life in a normal country. This is a harsh place with no future.
23. Americans could stop be so loud and obnoxious for starters
reply   (03.20.12)
Maybe israelis would not make so much fun of their accents if they were not so hellbent on ensuring that every person within a radius of 10 km can hear what they have to say.
24. Typical right winger - even the smallest hint of criticism
Objective   (03.20.12)
against Israel or Israelis is immediately labelled as anti semitism/self hate/treachery. Maybe, just maybe Israel is WRONG (heaven forbid) on quite a number of issues, especially relating to human rights. As Netanyahu said - if its looks like a duck...etc. It IS a duck, and one should be allowed to say so.
25. The notion
Moshe ,   ABO, US   (03.20.12)
sounds great and easily reasonable. But, boy o boy, is he a dreamer!
26. USA is NOT the only Jewish community in the Diaspora!
Flavio ,   Sao Paulo, Brazil   (03.21.12)
Shame on the author for erasing all other Jewish communities around the world, except for the USA! For him, the "Jewish World" encompasses only Israel and USA?! What about the millions of Jews living in Canada, Argentina, France, Brazil, South Africa, UK, Russia, Germany etc etc etc?!? Aren't we part ot Am Israel? Should we be regarded as second class Jews? Don't we matter, don't we count? It seems tha ignorance really is widespread, even in the most advanced and educated societies!
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