Opinion  Sever Plocker
Moving closer to one state
Sever Plocker
Published: 01.05.12, 13:23
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1. HA HA the settlers will become part of Palestine
Gadi ,   Haifa   (05.01.12)
2. Two states have been in existence, legally, in "Palestine":
Jehudah Ben-Israel ,   Qatzrin, Israel   (05.01.12)
1) 77% of the territory, handed over to the Arabs in 1921 which they, subsequently renamed Jordan, located east of the Jordan River. 2) 23% of the territory, assigned to the Jews in 1922 which they, subsequently renamed Israel, located between the Jordan River to the Med. Sea. And, since this partition of "Palestine" - the name of a territory, never a nationality or a state of course - is enshrined in international law and etched into the UN Charter, Article 80, of 1945, as an irrevocable act, why should the Jews compromise, again...??
3. Leftists wishful thinking
(05.01.12)
to make Israel a non-Jewish state.
4. an attractive article minus direction
David ,   Shiloh Israel   (05.01.12)
Steve: We may well be at opposing ends of the political spectrum, but I still found your presentation interesting. However, you didn't seem to explore possible solutions within your suggested scenario, other than a passing reference to saving Oslo. You recognized the unlikely prospect of 'evicting' thousands of Jews from their homes in the guise of a political 'evacuation' - that's actually a fair comment. You also touched on continued Palestinian aspirations for their own homeland. Although, in my opinion you failed to address the rights of indigenous 'Arabs' to exist in Israel without paying tribute to a PA. Perhaps, you might wish to do a follow up article as to how we could find peaceful co-existence within such an inevitable scenario, as you put it? Seriously, I for one would welcome exploring ways that a one state solution (very much like we have now if we maintain the staus quo) could work. That of course would mean narrowing the political divide between the apparent concept of 'crazed settlers hell bent on war' on one side, facing (suicidal self hating Jewish lefties) on the other. I'm hoping that there is enough common ground for us to share in Israel? '
5. none sense
nadav ,   tlv   (05.01.12)
1) there can be 100 million arabs across the green line, that doesn't mean they are, will be or must be citizens of Israel. Israel is a sovereign state and has zero obligation in making the de-facto Jordanian citizens living in the West Bank (or the de facto Egyptians citizens in Gaza) part of Israel. 2) The PLO is always lying and double counting how many denizens they have. there are no more than a million arabs on the west bank- if that! 3) If the world created a fund and paid an arab muslim family from the west bank $10k to move to ANY other country, 99% would do that!
6. Not complacent
Sagi   (05.01.12)
Foolish to the nth degree.
7. Plotzker
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (05.01.12)
First of all, the "two state solution" is not and never was a solution. One of the two states will not be viable. Second, the "two state solution" has never been accepted by any Arab leader, only by the Israeli extreme-Left. Third, the "two state solution" advocated by the Israeli extreme-Left is for an ethnically pure Arab state and a non-Jewish binational state called Israel. Only Lieberman talks of a real "two state solution". Fourth, a "one state solution" has always been the wisest solution accepted by peace-loving Arabs, but has been rejected by the PLO which wants the right to flood Israel with unlimited Arab immigrants. Fifth, the "one state solution" will be difficult to implement thanks to the Israeli extreme-Left "education system" that, since 1993 has conditioned the Arabs to hate coexistence and strive for genocide of the Jews. But it is good to see that Plotzker finally realizes how stupid the Oslo accords were.
8. Mr. Plocker- get the facts straight
Joel Bainerman ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (05.01.12)
Mr. Plocker- get your facts straight. There is NOT 2.2 million Palestinians in the west bank- but only 1.2M- 250,000 of which have Israeli identity cards. The PA have hoodwinked everyone (including Mr. Plocker) with the false numbers of 2.4M Palestinians on the West Bank for political purposes. Unfortunately, so few op-ed writers bother to check the facts.
9. The One-state mantra is leftist ficition
Menachem ,   Israel   (05.01.12)
Israel will never annex the Arab populated areas of Judea or Samaria and Gaza is history as far as Israel is concerned. Most Jews in Samaria & Judea reside in a small geographical border close to the green line which can easily be incorporated into Israel proper. We are in fact moving further and further away from a non-existing one-state solution: Most Israelis want to keep the old city of Jerusalem but separate the Arab villages and towns (so called "East Jerusalem" from Jerusalem proper and Israel as well as the Arab communities in the little triangle of um El Fahm and Taibe. The anti-terror fence is not only protecting Israel from Arab terror but has only inceased the inevitable physical divorce between Israel and the Arabs of Judea & Samaria. No matter of the future status of Judea & Samaria, the state of Israel will remain the national homeland of the Jewish people with a solid Jewish majority.
10. Very intelligent
Federico Moscowitz ,   Roma   (05.01.12)
Very good point. We, from the outside, watch the long and sure death of the State of Israel and Israelis don't care. As a Jew, I support Israel, but were I a Palestinian I would be to the streets to have my state. It is a mistake not allow the Palestinians to create their state and help them to be solid and stable. This is on the interest of Israel. Instead, the Government goes on building more settlements. Do they thing this go unnoticed?
11. Most here have their heads in the sand
esnuffnstl ,   USA   (05.01.12)
Ignoring the reality this article outlines, ignoring the fact that there will be no ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians (like they dream about), ignoring the fact that the world will simply not tolerate the Palestinians not getting a state. One day they won't be able to ignore these realities. That day will be when everything explodes in their face. Those who truly care about Israel desire a two-state solution. It is the only outcome possible that will keep Israel as a Jewish state.
12. The choice is status quo or 2 states for 2 peoples
Sam ,   Canada   (05.01.12)
Palestinians are not going to be given citizenship in Israel. So, there is no issue of Israel remaining a Jewish state. But most Israelis seek an acceptable peace with the Palestinians not a peace at any cost as the liberal panic mongers would have it. Either the Palestinians negotiate a peace acceptable to Israel or they will have the status quo. They are in no position to dictate otherwise.
13. We proudly reject the evil Two State Final Solution.
Chaim ,   Israel   (05.01.12)
Plocker should read the article on the inset of his article in Ynet today. It belies every bit of leftist fiction he writes. The Jewish birthrate is increasing while the Arab birthrate declines. Judea and Samaria are huge demographic assets to Israel. Not liabilities. Moreover, Arabs are leaving Judea and Samaria by the tens of thousands annually. By offering compensation to Arabs to leave Israel, we could solve this problem within a few years. We vehemently, proudly reject the evil, monstrous Two State Final Solution.
14. #1 Gadi. Palestine is forever fictional.
Chaim ,   Israel   (05.01.12)
#1 Gadi. It may be comforting to you to believe that Judea and Samaria will become part of fictional Palestine. But it will never happen. Judea and Samaria belong to Israel forever. Palestine is forever fictional.
15. A Red Herring we thought.....
Buskila ,   South America   (05.01.12)
is an old hack, but terminated when lecturer De La Pergola left for Scotland (to help solving the Scotish disputes when it gains its independance). Look, you may say that Norway is getting pretty close to becoming a One State for two peoples: The Norwaygians (including the aboriginals Laplanders) and the North African-ME Arabs that according to statistics, the demographics will be as such that by 2050 Norwaygians will be in minority, so Norway has 'now' a problem in its hands. Back to our Pergola-backyard, Israel leaders in the question (yaini: the intellectuals) looked into the half full glass and got a Eurika that pretty soon the demographics code is going to tell us tragedies. Well, now 12years later and loo and behold Prof? Plocker is fishing back from the muddy waters the same Red Herring: Demographic threats. I for one thanks all the religions populations (though I am not a particular practitioner)....
16. Nothing much has changed since 1947 except the name.
WikiMiki   (05.01.12)
17. #10 Reality check
Menachem ,   Israel   (05.01.12)
It is not Israel but the Arabs who have systematically opposed a peaceful two-state solution as evidenced in 1937, 1947, 1967, 2000, 2007, 2009, and 2011. The vast majority of the "settlements" are built in tiny Jewish areas close to the green line which will in any case remain part of Israel in the future. Israel doesn't want Samaria & Judea to turn into the next Gaza with rockets falling on Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Ben-Gurion airport. Get the facts straight before you point fingers at Israel.
18. There is a different process that has begun in 1923
Yael Schlichting ,   Qiryat Motzkin   (05.01.12)
The 1923 mandate is lacking one important component of the 1923 treaty: The exchange of population Nevertheless the Arabs implemented this important feature unilaterally while Jews failed to only come close. The Arabs made it very clear, that they don't want to live with Jews and we were stupid enough to allow those, who are supporting the idea of Arab/Muslim countries free of Jews, to live together with us. Of course this had to fail, because it takes two! I mean, the Arabs/Muslims already implemented one part of the exchange of population: They expelled, expropriated and expatriated their Jewish "minorities". While the intl. public turned a blind eye on what happened, they implemented an important fact, that was forgotten to lay down in the mandate. And now? We need to find words for the unspeakable and tell the intl. community, that they already accepted "A" and now it's time for "B". Whatever this "B" may be, but it must be a stable situation without terror or civil war. We have allowed a an unstable situation to persist for more than 64 years. We have allowed a situation, where our Brothers and sisters live under threat in their own homes. We have allowed a situation that enables our enemies to fight us from within. It's time to settle this once and for all and after all what happened, I am not saying that a settling solution will be enjoyed by everyone. Essence of a settlement is, that both sides may not love it. But we cannot go on like this and we must think the unthinkable. I believe, the stateless Arabs cannot get away with all of Judea and Samaria. In 1968 they had a 33% of the land registered in the then closed cadastral register. If we reconcile this with the unlawful expropriation of Jewish property by Trans-Jordan in 1949, we end up with significantly less. Let's conduct a land reform, that gives the stateless Arabs a contiguous territory (a 30% of the disputed territory), that might be a "Free state of Arab Palestine" where they can to their own thing except: Defense and foreign policy and issues, that directly interfere with overall Israeli issues like water- and waste management. Let them issue their own passports and IDs. Let them have their own tax and health system....... But no state! Yes, a one-state solution, with those, who don't want to live in a Jewish state, being a citizen of a "Free state of Arab Palestine" with no chance ever to switch from their ID to an Israeli ID.
19. Israeli Arabs are the problem
Golan ,   modiin   (05.01.12)
not Arabs in Judean and Samaria. +20% of Israelis are hostile Arabs. That is 1 in 5 of us. Couple this with the radical elements of the Haredi community and Jewish communists who also have problems with Arab communists (they only "join" forces when they condemn Israel's existence) so please... The solution is a Balestinian state in Gaza and no Arabs in the rest of Israel (with the exception of the Druze, and Abu Gosh)
20. Run for PM, maybe you can fix this?
D   (05.01.12)
21. Number 2, you are sooooo right. Thanks.
Rivki ,   Shiloh   (05.01.12)
22. IN THE END ISRAEL WILL DISENGAGE FROM 40% OF JUDEA&SAMARIA
David ,   Modiin, Israel   (05.01.12)
End of problem. No Gaza, no major Arab population centers in Judea and Samaria. It's not hard at all.
23. What is wrong with this article?
Israeli 2   (05.01.12)
Everything. Israel is already a one state. It is a Jewish state. There is no Palestine or Palestinian Jews are not interested in being ruled or sharing their state with an enemy. Israel is expanding and independent
24. An example in the mediterranian history
Istvan ,   BUDAPEST HUNGARY   (05.01.12)
During centuries, greeks in Asia Minor ( Anatolia ) and turks living in the greek island were permanent subject of mutual violence and massacres. It seemed to be an unsoluble conflict. But after WWI, the internationa l community decided : enough is enough. All turks were settled to the continent from the islands and all greeks to Greece from Anatolia. And it was succesful, the system is functioning even today. Why not to copy this idea : to draw a line then, all jews to the left side and all arabs to the right side. And the middle east conflict is solved.
25. to 23
nana ,   jerusalem   (05.01.12)
no need to hear the tik-tik- enough to open your eyes it is not expanding sure it will not independent ... evry time i pass through a checkpoint i aske the same question .....it will be forever ???????
26. #24 Problem: the arabs want it all
solomon ,   bklyn   (05.01.12)
27. Israel Palestine Jordan
Mike ,   Tel Aviv   (05.01.12)
Discussing the issue of demographics of Jews and Arabs will not be complete if we dont include the territory east of the Jordan River which has come to be known as Jordan. The aspirations of the newly developed Palestinian "people", whose identity was shaped and formed only recently in the 20th century, must be realized on the Jordanian territory as thr new Palestine but never on the western side of the Jordan river at the expense of the Jewish People with their 3000 year long history and claim to the land. The tyrannical monarchy of the Hashemites must be toppled to make room for the new state. Arabs of Judea and Samaria and also the arabs living in Israel must be actively encouraged to emigrate to their new state with the promise of good financial compensation and the understandin that they will never realize their dreams of binationalizing the Jewish state. The more we push for the concept of the Jewish state and the more we implement the concept of Avoda Ivrit or Jewish employment by raising the necessary consciousness, the less room will be for the Arabs to live comfortably in Israel. Intense and large scale Aliyah, especially from Europe where increasing Antisemitism and collapsing economy will make life for Jews there a living miserable dangerous hell, will also help the Jordan is Palestine solution to come true.
28. #22. Judea & Samaria will be part of Israel forever.
Chaim ,   Israel   (05.01.12)
#22. In the end, Israel won't disengage from a single grain of sand in Judea and Samaria. Tens of thousands of Arabs are disengaging permanenty from Judea and Samaria annually. Ultimately, Israel will accelerate this wonderful trend by paying Arabs to leave. In a few years, the problem will be solved forever.
29. #28
Jonathan ,   MN/US   (05.01.12)
"Tens of thousands of Arabs are disengaging permanenty from Judea and Samaria annually" I heard you claim that all the time but every site i've been to has said otherwise, That few if any are leaving.
30. #29 jonathan
solomon ,   bklyn   (05.02.12)
You are right in that 'tens of thousands' are not leaving. But a great many are.; those are the Christian arabs, trying to escape persecution by their Muslim 'brothers'. They cannot admit it openly, but news reports and their dwindling numbers tell the story. As well at their increasing numbers in Israel, the one place they can turn to.
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