made a killing robbing Jews and helped prolong the war with their total lack of principle being bankers, launderers,arms manufacturers and "Aryan" volunteers for the Nazis. How many Jews died because the Swiss sent them back to the Nazis will probably be never known.

the British, French, German, and American people inflicted huge amount of suffering on each other in both world wars. Now they are the best of friends. If they did not forgive each other and accept that all of them shared the blame for the wars they would still be enemies. The Dutch were invaded by Germany which devastated their capital city with terror bombing. If the Dutch want to pay respects to German soldiers as well as their own, then that is obviously the way they deal with things in their culture. The same applies to the Americans, French , British and Germans. It is fine for Jews to refuse to forgive but its not OK for them to tell others how to deal with war memories. Although Jews suffered terribly in WW2 , they were not they only ones.

Actually Netherland IS already paying the price : Look at the social unrest due to the muslim community - one day this will explode right in the face of the Netherland as well as other european countries. Then look at the financial crisis in the EU : another tickinng bomb.....''He who curses Israel will be cursed, he who blesses Israel will be blessed !''

With the exception of a small number of refugees from Germany, Austria, etc., the Jews deported by the German invaders were Dutch citizens and as such they were deprived of their basic right to life. There were also Dutch resistance groups which numbered non-Jews and Jews as well. There is no need to honor the memory of those who invaded the country, destroyed cities, killed, looted & perpetrated atrocities & spread hatred. Gerstenfeld is correct. Such "feel good" measures only foster distortion of the history and a false feeling of "why can't we all get along," which is tantamount to accepting Nazi ideas and equalizing the Nazis with their enemies. Besides, the Allies fought the war to end Nazi/German aggression. He who fires the first shot is to blame. Let the Germans remember their own dead.

The Germans were solely responsible for WW2, they started it, they invaded other European countries, their soldiers murdered millions of people, why in the world would anyone want to "honor:" these bastards , reconciliation???, why would I reconciliate with murderes who caused so much misery, that murdered my 2 half sisters ( little girls) who are you to tell me to forgive...... why ??

Publish the names and places of the 25k.

Before WW II the Jewish population in the Netherlands roughly doubled because many German Jews fled to the Netherlands expecting it to remain neutral as in WW I. Most Jews during WW II in the Netherlands were exposed and rounded up by Dutch Nazi collaborators. The administration of the Holocaust in the Netherlands was by Austrian Nazis. During WW II Vorden had a Luftwaffe base. At the end of WW II this base was bombed and the German troops killed are buried in Vorden. There were many Dutch Nazi collaborators. After WW II Vorden and many other places had prison camps for Nazi collaborators. After WW II the Dutch Queen commuted every single death penalty of Nazi war criminals in the Netherlands.

The issue is not forgiveness or reconciliation, the issue is whitewashing history. Dealing with war memories by glorifying those who collaborated with the Nazis, or paying respects to German soldiers, is a complete denial of the crimes committed against the Jewish people by the Germans and their Dutch sympathizers. We forgive but we will never forget and we will continue to remind those, who like you, would prefer to ignore, especially now with the rise once again of virulent antisemitism across Europe, why millions of Jews were killed.

"I'm nice, tolerant, friendly, great & I know what's good for you!" Conclusion: "I'm the best kid in the class"! That's the National Dutch Mantra! A nasty little thing like 'colaboration with Nazi murderers or 'colonialism doesn't fit the picture, so it never happened, well, it did! Dutch hypocrites are still among us. They *clean the graves, but wish us with Hamas into the gas, they are *tolerant as long as it doesn't come to close, they *allow kosher slaughter, but try to undermine it with sneaky stories of animal cruelty, had/have a problem returning stolen Jewish goods and loved Anne Franks famous tree & diary more than they loved Anne Frank. Make no mistake about it, if not the Dutch & other European occupied countries 'willingly helping the Nazi's many, many Jews would have been saved, but that was never part of the plan! But thank G-d not all Dutch people were/are like that. Many, many didn't want to be part of that plan and had/have their hart in the right place!!

Dutch lied that they had tried to save Jews.

Best of friends? Brits and Americans above a certain age do not trust older Germans, and have neither forgiven nor forgotten. I cannot imagine H M The Queen, or any American President honouring the SS. NATO allies are close to Germany only after major societal adjustments and replacing Nazis with Democrats and rebuilding Germany in the Anglo-American tradition.

Number 2 is confusing two issues. No one blames today's young Germans for what their grandfathers did during the war. We don't visit the sins of the fathers on the grandchildren, BUT that doesn't mean we honour the SS who ran the extermination camps. We cannot forgive what they did to our ancestors because both they and our ancestors are dead. They have faced the True Judge in the Court on High.

that no-one exactly knows for sure what we're commemorating at the 4th of may. Originally, the memorial was intended to WWII victims, Jews, resistance members, and foreign soldiers who died in the defense of the country. Later on, Dutch casualties in other wars (from Indonesia until as recently as Afghanistan) were added to the concept and we're still thinking up ways to add even more. In the late '90's, when the public started to take notice of structural Arab misbehaviour in society, some left-wing (quelle surprise) politicians and idealists started to use memorial day as a tool to advance national unity and integration. The Arab population subsequently wasted no time in trying to twist the situation to their own advantage, and to this day only use memorial day to equate the Jews of the late '30's to themselves in present-day society ('we are the new Jews' or 'look what discrimination lead to back then'). In this they confuse rightful criticism of their disgusting behaviour with racism. Apparently they are the true victims here, or so they feel. Some even went so far as demanding that on our national memorial day, Maroccan soldiers should also be remembered. Some politicians even considered it, in the hope it would prevent Muslims from playing soccer games with memorial wreaths, which they do quite openly. In this atmosphere, memorial day has become, regretably, highly politicized and every year we have the same repeated arguments about what we will, and what we should be commemorizing and, equally regretably, the discrepancy between these to things is growing every year, as officials, unable to cope with the whole situation, just try to resolve the issue by creating a huddly cuddly feel-good atmosphere around memorial day, in which German soldiers are also included as a mark of forgiveness and an expression of the shared ideals we embrace 70 years later. What also play a major part in Dutch society, and in the whole fracas surrounding memorial day is a marked unwillingness to acknowledge evil. It is just not part of the Dutch worldview. Everyone and everything is both a little good and evil. G-d forbid there is anything called absolute morality! This has lead to the assumption that even Germans soldiers of the second world war is were both victim and perpetrator. I, however, am not like to commemorate a SS'er at National Memorial day. In fact, it is my considered opinion that his death in Eastern Europe during the war was exeptionally good news for the Netherlands in general and the Dutch Jews in particular. As it turned out, most of the Dutch agreed on this and the reading of the poem was subsequently cancelled out of fear of a dissapointingly low turnout.

Queen Juliana was not in favour of the death penalty, that's true, but nonetheless 42 people were actually executed. Please present things as they were, the subject is sensitive enough as it is.

25.000 collaborators in a country of 16 million isn't really a huge number, big deal. Holocaust denial shouldn't be punished it's absurd to have such laws in a country otherwise known to have free speech. As an occupied nation the Netherlands have nothing to apologize for so i think it's good to resist such a silly request for an apology.

The Dutch population at the time was about eight and a half million, not sixteen. The article also doesn't mention 25.000 collaborators, but 25.000 SS members, which is considerable. On a side-note, I noticed my post at #15 contains a rather embarassing number of grammatical errors I would not have made If I had the good sense of taking my usual first cup of coffee before climbing behind my computer. I do hope the messsage is still discernable.

Tell you what. We'll forego the apology if the Dutch museums restore the two privately owned Vermeers, six privately owned Rembrandts, eighteen privately owned Picassos, four privately owned Pissaros, nine privately owned Van Goghs, six privately owned Monets, four privately owned Klees -- and there are probably more -- that used to hang in the homes of Dutch Jews and now reside in Dutch museums. In total -- priceless works of art, all of which have been conclusively proven to have been the private property of Jewish families. Fair trade? As a Swede, you really need to shut up. Everyone knows why Nazi Germany never invaded Sweden. They didn't have to! Can you spell Alex Wenner Gren? You had a country full of Alex Wenner Grens. And only one Raoul Wallenberg. How do the Swedes, as such enthusiastic Nazi collaborators, even stand themselves? And why should not the Dutch face up to their war crimes? How silly is that, you moron?

Your message is exceedingly discernible.

loser he couldn't go as far as he went without help, he was Austrian not German, he speeks Austrian language, and no Austrians r not Germans, the ukrain also gave helping hand by providing staf, and Polisch people also gave hand right before the Blitze

Once they are dead. I think I will continue to piss them off by living.

Have they forgotten ?.after the Germans killed the Jews of Holland,the Dutch people themselves were starving and freezing to death under the Germans, who were witholding food and heating materials from their people,are the Dutch today trying to appease the new masters of Europe,the muslims,who were in the German camp during ww 2.

It's probably that you're so tired "yawn" that you didn't reed the article properly. The rest must be ignorance. The article said 25000 'volonteers went to the Waffen SS. Beside that, another 100000 people were member of the Dutch Nazi party NSB & than there were the 'anonymous traitors, the little 'helpers with their phone calls betraying Jews & non-Jews to the Nazi's (for money), the vultures coming into Jewish homes and stealing everything possible from those """rich Jews. Maybe it's not a big deal for you, but maybe if it would happen to YOUR father & mother, brothers & sisters, your children & your wife, your grandfather & mother, some uncles & cousins, all together about 70 people of YOUR family, maybe than it would be a 'big deal. Maybe some years in the concentrationcamp as a 'laborour/slave would help you understand the 'big deal. After surviving that hell and coming home as the only survivor and seeing that everything has been stolen from your home by your nice neighbour & his wife is wearing your dead wifes clothes, maybe than it would be a 'big deal after all. For your information, today there are16 million Dutch. Then there were less than 9 million people. Learn some facts before you write stupid comments!

Don't ask you why. EU owes a heavy debt to the rich Germany.

The author here does not tell the complete story about the poem written by the fifteen year old boy. The poem's title is "wrong choice". The 15 year old author tells about his great-uncle who (I quote) "made a wrong choice", "chose a wrong army, with wrong ideals" because he "fled for poverty" and "hoped for a better life". The poem goes on to tell that this man had four brothers in the resistance, he was the one fighting, and eventually dying, on the Eastern front, fighting for the Germans. For me, the poem represents not a whitewash of history. It does the opposite, reminding Dutch people that many Dutch volunteers fought for the Germans, something that we often seem too willing to put behind us. The poem also suggests that it is easy to make the wrong choice, so we have to be vigilant and not think too highly of ourselves, not believe too easily that we would directly make "the right choice". Lastly, the author feels that these people, who made the wrong choice, also deserve not to be forgotten. Their memory should not be a whitewash of history, but a full memory, of the person, his actions, and his wrong choices. The author was brave to write about his great-uncle and send in this poem. The story about the Dutch volunteers is still a taboo in the Netherlands. It is so much easier - but wrong - not to talk about it, forget about it. It would be good if there would be more openness about it, and more reflection. Just wanted to add this to the debate.

Having recently found a diary about the Holocast by my surviving family, one finds that the majority of Dutch were either active collaborators or silent participants. The Dutch police arrested my second cousin and brutally beat for 3 days before handing him over to the Nazis, he survived Buchenwald. My mother used to tell how the Dutch would enter the homes of the Jews being arrested and stealing all their stuff or just taking posession of their homes. Later the Dutch authoroties just destroyed the deeds of these homes to cover up this theft. Overall only about 4% of the Dutch were active in the resistance. But you Mr Yawn being a superior Swede has forgotten that only 800 years ago, you ancestors came and wiped out towns and cities in of all place Holland, as part of your great viking culture. White washing history and hypocrite behavior are a very European trade in order to forget their own rotten bloody history.

I strongly disagree. I know the contends of this poem full well and I find it thoroughly distasteful to commemorate a member of the Waffen-SS on a day that is originally meant for the victims of the Shoah. I want to mention here that the SS had a rather large part in their victimhood, and that's an understatement. Also, I have made wrong choices in my life, yet none of them involved espousing and advancing an ideology which facilitated the deportation, dehumanizing and, finally, the cold-blooded murder of six million perfectly innocent people, if not more. 'Just a wrong choice' indeed. 'Wrong army', 'wrong ideals' indeed! As if we are talking about picking the wrong shoes, to quote the words of Rav Lody van de Kamp. Nice one, yet the SS were Nazi's. You had poor German sods who were drafted into the Wehrmacht (I still see no reason to commemorate them on OUR national day of mourning), but this unlamented piece if work is a different animal altogether. You did not become a member of Hitler's private army just by virtue of your fine blond hair and blue eyes, you know? I repeat, this person should be forgotten, yesterday rather than tomorrow. The twisted ideology he represented when he was killed, however, we're not like to forget anytime soon.

It's not that long anyway. It's a literal translation. I also kept the verb tenses intact. My name is Auke Siebe Dirk I am named after my great-uncle, Dirk Siebe A boy who made a wrong choice A choice for a wrong army With wrong ideals Fled for poverty Hoped for a better life No way back anymore When a choice is made Only a road ahead He can not walk away from Fighting against Russians Fear of dying himself Thinking about home Where Dirk's future has yet to begin His mother is torn by the War Mommy of eleven children, eleven of whom are in the resistance And one fighting at the Eastern Front All eleven were equally dear to her Dirk Siebe never came home again My name is Auke Siebe Dirk I am named after Dirk Siebe Because Dirk Siebe too, must not be forgotten I only have an amateur's experience in analyzing poetry, but this, to me, doesn't exactly describe how easily one can make the misstake of joining the SS and also doesn't call on the public to remain vigilant, nor is it a call for introspection. Poor, poor pitiful Dirk, that's the message.

But jews do NOT want to move, they want the world to keep paying till the end of times. The benefits are so huge, it keeps israel going since they have nothing else.