Jewish Scene
Haredi supermarket removes 'modesty signs'
Shiri Hadar
Published: 06.06.12, 13:13
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35 Talkbacks for this article
1. How about asking men to take a shower?
Haim ,   TA   (06.06.12)
Strange dont you think, always the same group of men who apparently cant control their sexual emotions when standing next to a female shopper in the check out line, telling women what they can and cannot wear according to their warped sense of reality. How about the women folk telling the harideem to go take a shower and change their clothes once in a while?
2. Sounds familiar
Arturo   (06.06.12)
The islamic "modesty police"
3. Is this an April 1st item?
Israeli grandma   (06.06.12)
I think the store's real problem is that they lost a lot of disgusted customers, and rightly. Only in Iran and Saudi is it compulsory for females to shroud themselves in black. Of course accepted public standards in Israel for bodily modesty for everybody Including non religiously affiliated men and women, would be nice, but those days seem to be long gone.
4. Shopping...
JeanH ,   USA   (06.06.12)
Sounds like the profits made the 'change' in policy!
5. What if there was a sign telling people
jason white ,   afula, israel   (06.06.12)
to remove all religious items like kippot and sheitels and to shop in their underwear? Imagine the uproar? Why do we allow a minority to dictate to us Jews? This store should be boycotted by Jews and let the hara-dims buy there.
6. Good news, but...
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (06.06.12)
I wonder what they mean by: "...we decided to remove the sign temporarily in order to draft a version that is acceptable to the all our clientele."
7. We birthed the entire nation, so....
Mea   (06.06.12)
we're dignified by G-d, and that's all the approval we need folks. Never before in the history of Jews has there been a dignity policing, so why is needed now? Let's look at the evidence: 1. Only lately does the nation of Israel PAY religious louts to study. 2. ) Only lately does the religious sector get excused from military service--pretty surprising considering King David himself was a warrior, so what about using that example?, and 3.) Only lately does the voice of a female constitute something to flee from: again, pretty surprising considering that Moses himself listened to the Song of the Sea and that every male prays about it daily. These approaches to observance have resulted in a product that is inferior: the new religious man who is so isolated from regular society he is now a parasite who cannot control his sexual responses in public. He resorts to blanketing women and even spitting at small girls. The experiment failed. This result must beg the further question of what has happened to the control group of seculars who tolerate and even pay part of their own wage to sustain the petrie dish that is ultra-Orthodox.
8. key concept: respect
Larry ,   Los Angeles   (06.06.12)
what is at stake here is mutual respect. can one brother respect another who has different ideas? Can a one brother feel the sensitivities of his brother? Is he willing to act in a manner that neither corrupts nor intimidates the other. That is what is at stake here.
9. "someone might have a heart attack" - and that's a problem?
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (06.06.12)
I last saw a "chador" in Iran, many years ago, and few wore them. Osher Ad needs to get a clue. Jews don't wear chadors. Never have, never saw a need to. And if a member of the "modesty squad" gets a heart attack because he sees a woman's arm, well, maybe while he recovers he'll reconsider the faulty values and attitudes he's imbibed.
10. To Larry # 8
David ,   Herzlia,Israel   (06.06.12)
What are you talking about, the Hardim want everthing to be done to make then "happy" , do you think they care about the secular people ?, they don't care or respect non-haredim !, they only need the secular money, and for the secular to go the army and risk their lives... for what ????
11. excuse me,
ecr   (06.06.12)
but it's not the Kotel!
12. ..what do they mean with "temporarily"??
Ze'ev ,   Nbg, germany   (06.07.12)
Means that they will continue with misogyny and religious coercion after a while? I hope the non haredi israelis will wake up now, before its to late and Israel got turned into a Iran style state...
13. Well
Joe ,   New York, USA   (06.07.12)
At least they are interested in offering the cheapest prices.
14. modesty at supermarket
naim p ,   miami florida usa   (06.07.12)
Modesty enforced ..?, distrbution of gowns ...? hummm where have i seen this before ...... Oh i know ! iran and afghanistan where people like me a christian arab is considered a dog ; israel don't follow bad examples
15. 10 David they they they....
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (06.07.12)
Are secular Jews also they,they,they? You know,in both societies we find a great variety of people ,if we have an eye for truth.
16. On the other hand...
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (06.07.12)
When my parents retired to Fort Lauderdale and I visisted we were surprised to find women shopping in supermarkets wearing bikinis and high heels. There should be some middle way acceptance of some form of correct dress. What surprises me about Israel is the thought of Haredi men doing the shopping. In my own Haredi circles men wouldn't know what the inside of a supermarket looks like!
17. #13, No They're Not, Sorry
Brana Lobel ,   Israel   (06.07.12)
Hey Joe sorry to bust your balloon but as a fervent grocery bargain hunter in Israel the actual shopping bargains are few and far between. Most stores vary by a shekel or two which is 30 to 60 cents per item. There is virtually no such thing as USA type bargain in Israel. Rami Levi comes the closest but only only on a very few items, so even this store is misleading. When you read that people here had to protest over cottage cheese prices you can understand how bad it is. So the Osher Ad guy is pure foo foo. He should go and work for Netanyahu.
18. What about closing this place if they put a new sign?
Deena   (06.07.12)
Lets be honest is about time to act hard against discrimination of any kind. What is going to be asked next? All of us need to learn how to be TOLERANT with other respects and beliefs in this country. We had enough!
19. to #17, ?
Joe ,   Ney York, USA   (06.07.12)
I just wrote that comment as an attempt at humor. I don't think the man is "foo foo," I lived in Israel a number of years, and I have defiantly found bargains at Osher Ad. Off the top of my head, I bought a space heater for 20 shekel.
20. (con) God birthed the entire nation, so..
Yosef ,   Flushing USA   (06.07.12)
3) The singing voice of a female is constituted as prohibited by Halacha (Shulchan Aruch, Even Haezer 21:2) for a man to listen to based on the Gemora (Talmud Bavli Berachot 24a). Every person in Israel sang the Song of the Sea. Do you have any proof that Moses heard the women singing? True, certain people in the past have acted rashly towards women, but please do not fall prey to a faulty generalization and brand an entire segment of Judaism as a "product that is inferior." There is no "petrie dish that is Ultra Orthodox." There is a large segment of Judaism who attempt to abide by the laws of the Torah all of its implications, whether it's deemed appropriate by "modern western thought" or not.
21. (Part 1) God birthed the entire nation, so..
Yosef ,   Flushing USA   (06.07.12)
(This was supposed to come before #20) To Mea, regarding your evidence: 1) The entire tribe of Levites, who, according to Deuteronomy 33:10 "shall teach Jacob Your ordinances, and Israel Your law," was paid out of both Israel's land and assets to do the service of God, which very much included study. 2) That same tribe of Levites was excused from military service.
22. Modesty and arousal
Maria B ,   Orlando, USA   (06.07.12)
What about women possibly getting excited at the sight of a cucumber?
23. Would love to hear
Yosef ,   Flushing USA   (06.07.12)
Mea, I would love to hear your response to my response to your comment (see comments below). I've heard your points being made before, and I was always curious as to what the response to what I commented would be..
24. My comment of "God birthed the entire nation, so.."
Yosef ,   Flushing USA   (06.07.12)
My comments seemed to have been posted out of order, but I'm sure everyone gets the point.
25. The real problem
Michael ,   NYC. US   (06.08.12)
What it comes down to is respect. Israeli leftists (in general) have none for any kind of Jewish orthodoxy. A good example is David Ben Gurion when he went to India he put on a chiffon orange robe to show respect to Buddhists but would refuse to ever for any reason wear a kippah.
26. Yosef
mea   (06.08.12)
Semantics, my friend. When I gave birth I clearly recall being there. The denigration of women in the orthodox communities is what has lessened the the image of the religious far more than anything anyone else could do. To suggest that the Lord would create the beautiful female voice and then associate it with evil inside men's hearts and an animal level reaction, is to subjugate not just the mothers of the nation but in actuality also the home itself. Woman is pure enough to send her prayers up through love. No such vessel could spew something ever held as bad. And you do have proof that Deuteronomy 33:10 refers to study. That is your convenient assumption. Slavery is wrong and the religious hold the secular in bondage.
27. Bet Shemesh Shopping
Fred Brown ,   Brooklyn, New York   (06.08.12)
Many 'non-charedim" Israeli's need to take a shower!!!!!
28. What's the big deal
Heshy ,   New York USA   (06.08.12)
Here in New York I have seen a few major supermarkets in Jewish areas with sighns asking customers do dress modestly with long sleeves and long dresses in accordance to Jewish law. As communities become more orthodox and religious,its a very normal policy. You can't walk into an American court room wearing a bathing suit. Respect to mankind is basic. And wearing proper cloths makes us different than animals.
29. Mea
Yosef ,   Flushing USA   (06.08.12)
I'm not sure how anything I said is dealing in semantics. Your attack on the "Ultra-Orthodox" was that only lately has there been an issue of men hearing women sing, which is clearly not the fact, unless you are denying the legitimacy and primacy of the Talmud in Judaic life and understanding, in which case we are dealing in two entirely separate worlds. No one is suggesting God associated the female voice with "with evil inside men's hearts." Would the argument that women should not dance dressed for seduction in front of men they are not married to suggest that the female form is associated with evil inside men's hearts? I think not. It would be drawing a boundary so that the man in question does not become attracted to a woman who he is halachicly prohibited to be with. I had more to my previous post, but it was not posted, probably due to it's length. I will post it next.
30. Mea (continued)
Yosef ,   Flushing USA   (06.08.12)
(continuation of original post) True, King David was a warrior, but he also rose at midnight to study Torah until the break of dawn. (Talmud Bavli, Brachot 3b) Why not use that as an example? To quote the Rambam (Hilchot Shemitta 13:13): "Not only the tribe of Levi, but any one of the inhabitants of the world whose spirit generously motivates him and he understands with his wisdom to set himself aside and stand before God to serve Him and minister to Him and to know God, proceeding justly as God made him, removing from his neck the yoke of the many reckonings which people seek, he is sanctified as holy of holies. God will be His portion and heritage forever and will provide what is sufficient for him in this world like He provides for the priests and the Levites. And thus David declared [Psalms 16:5]: "God is the lot of my portion; You are my cup, You support my lot."
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