Female officers warn of mass haredi draft
Moran Azulay
Published: 18.06.12, 09:06
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Patriotic Israeli ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.18.12)
Everybody is screaming for the heredim to serve in the army, but then everybody starts screaming that its not feasible. MAKE UP YOUR MINDS, you leftist idiots. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BECOME SECULAR LIKE YOU. EVER. SO DECIDE WHAT IS BETTER AND STICK TO IT!!!!!
2. @Moran Azulay: WHAT do you want ???
trumpeldor   (06.18.12)
1.Hareidim dodege the drat and you are unhappy 2.IDF will enter IDF and you are still unhappy Sorry but YOU are in complete disarray !
3. #1 - you don't seem to get it
Ajax ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.18.12)
Enlisting the haredim is very feasible. Those women merely anticipate the kind of arrangements that Bibi & Co are going to make to accomodate them, like banning women from some units in which they have been serving in for years while the haredim were busy evading draft. Haredim have to adapt to the army, not the other way around.
4. they don' t know what they want. Haredim in IDF or not ?
5. #3 - YOU don't seem to get it.
Patriotic Israeli ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.18.12)
While I definitely want to see EVERY heredi serving in the army, every effort should be made to ACCOMODATE them. Or they will not serve. They will opt for 3 years of jail rather than serve with women. And THAT does not serve the Israeli taxpayer to be paying for them to willingly sit in jail. SO WHY NOT MAKE SPECIAL ALL HEREDI BRIGADES. End of problem!!!
6. Hilarious!
Akiva   (06.18.12)
Funny stuff, let's recap; 1. The seculars who draft dodge en masse, have started a mad lefty campaign to have the hareidim (and not themselves or the arabs) brought into the army. 2. It turns out, there are thousands of hareidim UNABLE to get into the army at present, because there isn't the space or need for them! 3. Said lefty seculars conceive of an answer to this conundrum, let's FORCE THE HAREIDIM TO BREAK THE JEWISH RELIGION! Genius! Let's have them listen to women singing, despite that having NO RELEVANCE TO SERVING IN THE ARMY. 4. The lefty seculars suddenly realize that they aren't going to be having their cake along with the ability to eat it. The hareidim have the increasing political clout and CANNOT be forced into anything. Now they suddenly want out because, oops, the whole thing is no longer on their terms. Heaven forbid the army of the JEWISH state of Israel should follow JEWISH law.
7. Nothing to worry about
Chaim   (06.18.12)
Haredim would not join as long as there are seculars who thing of themselves "elite" when they know quite well that the religious Jews Torah learners are the true "elite" who have no business in such an immoral corrupt army. Haredim would not join as long as the army is anti-Torah and G-dless. Haredim would not join as long as there are women. So you guys have nothing to worry about.
8. Although out of my concern as an arab , i find
JayZ ,   Jerusalem   (06.18.12)
that you israelis are strange. You whine that haredim don't enlist and are draft dodgers, then again you ask them out. What do you really want? you are clueless.
9. Exactly what are they frightened of and what do they suggest
rebecca ,   Modiin   (06.18.12)
As usual all talk and no action. A letter written by so called important people and not a single suggestion in it. Just criticism.
10. This is ridiculous...
Aharon ,   Holon, Israel   (06.18.12)
Everyone should serve. Men, Women, Haredi, Secular, Sabra, Ulpanim, Arabs, Liberals, Conservatives. EVERYONE! If you want to live here, you MUST swear allegiance to THIS country and none other. You MUST become, in essence, ISRAELI. When you do that, you will then EARN the RIGHT/PRIVELAGE of living in this country as a citizen. Until then, you HAVE no rights.
11. Haredim in army
Ed Codish ,   Pardessiya, Israel   (06.18.12)
No, "Patriotic Israeli," the haredim will not choose three years in prison instead of the army. A few may, but there will be room for them in prison. Most will, after demonstrations, screaming, general disorderliness, serve like everyone else.
12. #11 - you are obviously a delusional secular leftist
Patriotic Israeli ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.18.12)
THEY WILL NOT SERVE WITH WOMEN! THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO WOMEN SINGING. AND ALL FOOD MUST BE GLATT KOSHER. Unfortunately, you are the type that deluded yourself that giving away Gaza will lead to peace and quiet. I pity your poor tortured soul trying so hard to tear down Judaism!
13. We Haradim Couldn't Pay for Better Friends!
Shuki ,   the South   (06.18.12)
We Haradim Couldn't Pay for Better Friends than these feminists!!! It's awesome how people want to be heard so badly, and think they make their own decisions. People say it's a small world, those fighting you will eventually help you......It's not small, it's just very well managed.
14. maybe we will have a moral army?
ma nishma ,   modiin   (06.18.12)
so women's right to chastity may be affected in a positive manner? not every woman want men playing with her!
15. Datim and Charedim will create a Torah Army!
Yos (Dati Leumi) ,   Jerusalem   (06.18.12)
With the help of the Almighty the Datim and Charedim together will create a true Torah army, where we will fight and live according to the Torah and thus bring real fear into our enemies hearts! We will go out to war with gun in one hand and a Torah scroll in other and the blast of the shofar! The leftists and feminists will be purged from the ranks and we will reach the status of the "Army of God".
16. Femijourno alert !!!
Laho   (06.18.12)
MA - please go do something and make yourself useful.
17. 15 From your mouth to G-Ds ears !
Yehudit ,   Israel   (06.18.12)
18. "Patriotic Israeli"
Ed Codish ,   Pardessiya, Israel   (06.18.12)
Or whoever you are hiding behind that name (rather cowardly. no?): I am not secular. I wish we could make a serious bet about how many Haredim would prefer to rot in prison than serve in the army. I think I would win big. Gaza: I think withdrawing the army was an error, but not withdrawing the settlers.
19. #18 - "cowardly"
Patriotic Israeli ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.18.12)
Ah! That buzz phrase of the Jewish establishment. My friend, when I look to my left, I see Lieberman. I gave up a good life in USA in order to be a Patriotic Israeli and have been here for 25 years through thick and... thicker. As an American I learned a valuable lesson. What's mine is mine! Or how about this: "to the victor goes the spoils". Or how about this: God, in Book of Numbers: "Your western border shall extend to the brook of egypt", which some interpret as the Nile River and some interpret as Wadi El-Arish. All agree that Gaza and half of upper Sinai are Biblical Israel given to us by God. Who are YOU to contradict God? Yours in patriotism, Yitzchak
20. #6 Akiva
Daniel ,   Great Neck, NY   (06.18.12)
although I agree with part of what you said, I must take issue with your third comment : "3. Said lefty seculars conceive of an answer to this conundrum, let's FORCE THE HAREIDIM TO BREAK THE JEWISH RELIGION! Genius! Let's have them listen to women singing, despite that having NO RELEVANCE TO SERVING IN THE ARMY. " Not being allowed to listen to a woman sing on religious reasons is retarded, and has nothing to do with Judaism. Practice some self control please.
21. just crazy
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (06.18.12)
The IDF's only purpose is to win wars, which means giving the kravi soldiers the conditions to win. It does not mean drafting Haredi to "be fair", to pacify some whiners sitting in a tent or to further a cheap politician's career. It also doesn't mean avoiding drafting Haredim because it might force some women to get a different job. It certainly does not mean humiliating kravi by forcing them to listen to third-rate singers just so feminists can feel good about themselves.
22. What's the problem?
Jonathan ,   Netivot   (06.18.12)
Simply make it the law that all soldiers have to accept all the values of the army, such as listening to women singing or whatever the army demands. Then wait for the charedim to join. Oh...
23. #21 Sorry Dan, the Gemara and Shulchan Aruch say otherwise.
Akiva   (06.18.12)
Just to set the record straight, the Gemara (Kiddushin 70a, Berachot 24a, Yerushalmi Challa 12b) and Halacha (Chayei Adam, First Section, 4:6) calls the singing voice of a woman, erva, or something forbidden for a man to hear. Never mind that, it's crassly stupid to insist on soldiers having to listen to women singing. How does that help defend our borders?
24. #20 Pardon? It is clearly detailed in the Talmud.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (06.18.12)
Both the Jerusalemite and the Babylonian Talmud refer to the female voice as something arousing for men. It depends, however, on the context. Ultra-Orthodox tend to take the stricter view - female singing, be it alone, in a choir, or recorded, is considered to be unchaste. The men avoid it for reasons of modesty, and it has everything to do with Judaism. This does not mean that women should be removed from the public sphere - far from it. However, discounting the issue out of hand and viewing it as "retarded" is merely ignorant. And subjecting people to acts and behavior they consider wrong is precisely the core objection of the ultra-Orthodox Jews to the military service.
25. #21 Agreed. However, don't forget the supprt soldiers.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (06.18.12)
Part of the "conditions to win" are given by people who serve support roles. Be it logistics or technical/technological aid of some kind, a lot of people are needed who aren't highly trained combat soldiers.
26. the haredi have committed the terrible crime of being haredi
zionist forever   (06.18.12)
It seems the haredi cant win either way. They are either being condemned for not wanting to go into the army but when they are ready to serve they are told to keep them out. Time to make up our minds one way or another on the haredi draft them or don't draft them and whatever we come to it is respected by all sides civilian and military alike because we cannot tell them to do something and because one sector doesn't like what they are doing they are condemned for it. Right now these haredi have not even been issued a uniform and they are already being condemned by feminist soldiers saying they are going to be trouble and should not be allowed to join the IDF. The real crime the haredi are guilty of is being haredi rather than members of the secular elite. Before these women condemn the decision to draft the haredi they might want to look around a little at who is in the army other than themselves. There are currently about 1000 haredi serving in Nahal Haredi ( a combat unit ) There are haredi serving in elite units like the Golani Brigade, some drive tanks, some are engineers and others work in offices. We might be wanting to draft haredi on a large scale now but some have been serving with distinction for years which is proof that given the time they can serve just as well as any secular even if they do wear a black hat when they take off their uniform. Don't expect them all to get used to army life overnight but instead of condemning them for it help them intergrate so they have an easier time getting used to it.
27. Mass Haredi draft ??? ,...
split ,   US   (06.18.12)
Very funny ? ,...
28. Fear Not
Brod ,   USA   (06.18.12)
It is good to have soldiers who know and adore the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. David knew the LORD and spoke with HIM who gave him power to neutralize Lions, Bears, Goliath, and later, as King, led Israel to victories against its surrounding Pagan enemies.
29. This conflict probably is not only about the Tal law
Yael Schlichting ,   Qiryat Motzkin   (06.18.12)
It's also about adapting existing structures, so that different factions of the peoples of Israel gain the ability to deal with each other. The problem is not only in the IDF but also in the streets. We must make it clear to the Hareidim that they have no authority do demand anything from the society. They are a part and they must serve their fair share to keep this state running. The same goes to the so called secular, who deny the Jewish state. They are on the other extreme end of the scale. There is a clear majority that neither wants religious extremism just like in Iran nor does this majority want Christian-Occidental decadence. The problem: This majority is silent, while the extremes are shouting out loud and are using every means, no matter if appropriate or not, to achieve their objectives.
30. #20
shua ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (06.18.12)
Hey daniel, go and learn some basic halacha. I'll make it a little easier for you, look in Even Haezer 21/1. Look towards the end of the paragraph. You see the little Dalet... good. Now for a second try to pretend that you are a REAL torah jew who follows the REAL halacha and doesn't look for loop holes.
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