Opinion
Norway doesn’t hate Jews
Kristina Furnes
Published: 20.06.12, 11:32
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1. Excellent article
R ,   Israel   (06.20.12)
I don't know how much antisemitism is prevalent in Norway, but the article seems researched and balanced. Ms. Furnes, I hope that you are right in your assessment.
2. Anti-Semitism and Israel critics.
Karoline ,   Oslo, Norway   (06.20.12)
In my opinion, one of the most difficult aspects of the debate of the appearance of anti-Semitism in Norway is whether or not to include Israel in the debate. Norway is a major critic of Israel, the Norwegian media is not balanced, and the political correct view is to condemn Israeli occupation. Most Norwegians who are pro-Palestinian deny that their view has anything to do with anti-Semitism. Only, they forget that Israel is a Jewish state. Yes, it is possible to be Jewish and not support Israel, but an outcome of critiquing Israel as a non-Jew is condemnation of Jews; the two are, whether we like it or not, intertwined. I think that is what we see in Norway, and that is also the reason why so many deny that there is a growing anti-Semitism among Norwegians. As long as Jewish kids in Norway experience violence, threats and hatred, as long as Norwegian Jews are afraid to wear their Star of David in in public, and as long as “Jew” is used as a term of abuse among Norwegians, there is reason to work against anti-Semitic attitudes in Norway, however far it has come. During the Shoah, Norwegians were shamefully silent when the Donau departed for the concentration camps, and not a word was said when the police went to Jewish homes to arrest the Norwegian Jews. Most Norwegians didn’t hate Jews back then, most people were just too ignorant and afraid to react. We say never again, but are we any less ignorant today?
3. Kristina Furnes errs
David ,   Frankfurt   (06.20.12)
Dear Kristina, first, a few words to myself. I have obtained two degrees at IDC; the same BA as you are currently studying for, as well as a MA specializing in Counter Terrorism and Homeland Security Studies. Furthermore, I have gained an MBA at Bar Ilan University. I came to Israel about 9 years ago from Germany. After my studies at IDC I started working at JCPA in Jlem where I had the chance to meet Manfred. The picture you're painting of him in your op-ed is far from reality and proves that you lack to understand his message. He's not an extremist, rather a researcher that identifies Antisemitism. Obviously, many people don't really like this habit of identifying Antisemitism as such since nowadays Antisemitism (well at least in Europe) isn't popular anymore: today, Antizionism is the new form of Antisemitism! I could dive into a discussion as of why Antizionism is Antisemitism but I guess that you have the tools at IDC to research that for yourself. Anyway, long story short: I'm not sure how your German skills are but I would suggest that you read Henryk M. Broder's "Vergesst Auschwitz" or "Der ewige Antisemit". I'm sure you will understand why the PM of Norway can be identified as an hobby Antisemite after reading these books. On a seperate note: making things less absolute won't change the fact that there are 30% bloodthursty Antisemites inb Norway (and we're not even speaking about the Muslim community of that country yet). So please, don't try to fool yourself.
4. "Jews view themselves as better than other people. "
Peter ,   Vienna-Austria   (06.20.12)
Well of course they do..just listen to usual bla bla bla about them being gods chosen people..the apple of gods eyes etc. They make it look like they are something special.
5. They hate Jews+Israel and I hate them period!
Alan ,   SA   (06.20.12)
6. A comment
ab   (06.20.12)
K:F. quotes "late admission of Jews to Norway" as "tainting Norwegia history",but what taints her history most is the wholesale participation of ordinary Norwegians in Nazi politics vs. Jews. Germans wanted to exempt Jewish spouses of Lutheran Norwegians from being deported to concentration camps and death,but to their amazement Norwegian authorithies protested-and the Jewish spouses were rounded up. 75% of Norwegian Jews was rounded up,despite the long border with Sweden,Norwegian policemen and volunteers pursued the fleeing Jews even accross the border. It was no more than 12 or so years ago Norwegian Goverment ,after long a scandalous study(one member of the "study group" was shown to be a member of a Neo-Nazi Party) finally acknowleged role ordinary Norwegians played in deportation and grabbing of property of exterminated Jews. No wonder country with such history might be judged unbalanced,but Kirsten Furnes restricts herself to claim "discussions are in Norwegian and therefore not unsderstood in their full context".Norwegian is not like an ancient Chinese dialect and there're plenty people understanding it 100%,me being one of them. T.Jagland (former PM) came indeed with antisemitic statements a few years ago and no "Norwegian context" can obfuscate it. On the other hand Professor Kristiansen objected to Arafat being given the Nobel Prize,so situation is not Black-White ,exactly just as postulated by Kirsten Furnes.
7. All Socialisms hate Jewishness !.
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (06.20.12)
The Cernel of Socialisms is, "Equality", exept for the "Facistic and Nationalistic Ones, in ther Outlook". Therefore none of the Socialisms can accept Jewishness. If You are a Convinced Social-democrat, this is the Backbone of Your behaviour, which in practise will be Anti - Jewish/Israelic(Antisemitic). Now - The Democratic/Liberal - Socialists are called - Usefull Idiots - They dont understand what their Politic in Practise means to other none Socialists. They are usually wery kind people, but lack insight and understanding, as above. But their Leaders do, and lead their followers in in this Antidirection. They have made a Partial Truth, even Equality, to the Whole Truth, and therefore stands as Enemies to Personal Truth/Personal relationships, for Example, HASHEMs to His Chosen People, bouth Jews and Heathen Christians. In Short and in Principle. Arn.Sweden.
8. Exaggeration
Shai ,   IL   (06.20.12)
"...During my stay in Israel, I have learned that reality is very far from black and white. This lesson applies everywhere." I think the point is that Norwegians aren't applying it to the Israel/Arab conflict, but rather are just as black/white/exaggerated in their claims about Israel as this Norwegian claims we are about Norway. Seems to me that Norway's got a long way to go before they can throw stone's in the glass house of exaggeration.
9. Thanks Mrs Furnes
Alexandre ,   Nancy, France   (06.20.12)
Your article speaks gold. Norway is no different from any European countries. Actually, Israel gets a bad rap from Europe because the European media reports only things about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The criticism towards Israel from Europeans is mainly based on selective informations and not sincere antisemitism. I am from France and my country is not known for its pro-Israeli stance, despite the French-Israeli friendship during the 50's. However, I don't think there is really a French aversion against Israel's culture. For example, in 2011, David Grossman was granted the Medicis Prize and the famous Israeli band Orphaned Land has one of its most important Western fan communities in France. Make the world better, fight hatred and ideologies and improve yourself the reputation of your country and the countries of your friends .
10. Gerstenfeld's articles
Tomek ,   Poland   (06.20.12)
should not have been dignified with a polemic. He, Meotti, and others preach to the choir which is rabidly anti-European.
11. Norway not anti semitic?
tiki ,   belgium   (06.20.12)
So much the better! But as history has teached us, it's always better to be safe than sorry and maybe it's 'precisely the articles & warnings of Mr. Gerstenfeld & his ilk (as the writer so politely points out), that Norvegians are waking up to their ugly past and are (hopefully) trying not to repeat it. Maybe we don't 'understand the mentallity of the Norvegians and is the soup not eaten as hot as it is served, but for the moment it looks like the soup in Norway & Sweden is pretty hot! You don't need to 'understand the 'Scandinavian mentallity for that, you just need to open your eyes & ears.
12. Attack and defence
Erik ,   Oslo, Norway   (06.20.12)
This is not an explanation of the widespread conception of Norway as a centre of Anti-Israel and Anti-Jewish propaganda in Europe. This article is simply a personal attack on Gerstenfeld. Those icons of the intellectual elites, Gaarder and Galtung are not even mentioned, nor the outpourings from AUF or Halvorsen and her ilk. Hiding behind Ervin Kohn or "lost in translation" are totally irrelevant. Unfortunately you got a whole article, I only get a short reply.
13. The author falls on her own statistics
Ron ,   Melbourne, Australia   (06.20.12)
Her comments are the usual (not sophisticated) form of attack like the "hijacked by extremists" or that raising this issue "damages the serious efforts of fighting anti-semitism" - which now Dr. Gerstenfeld is made responsible for in spite of the issue existing in Norway well before he was even born. Lets look at some of her comments - 92% believe it is important to teach the Shoah and uses this to prove that they are not anti-semetic. BUT the stats at the same time she quotes to show Norway is not the worst are - hass 12.5% , 19%, 26% ,etc - last I know 100%-92% is 8%. So she is trying to use data wherever it is available to prove a point even though the relationship is not clear and contradictory. By the way % sounds nice but reality is if you have 12.5 then it means that close to one in every 9 persons you meet in Norway is Anti-semetic - just strolling down the street. with the 19% figure it is close to one in 5 and with 26% it is one in 4 that you will meet strolling down. % seem to make this less pronounced. The likelyhood is that the number is greater as getting people to admit to something that is not supposed to be acceptable is always lower - which is why the trend has been to pick on Israel instead of Jews. The fact is that comments by Government Officials, etc show that it is acceptable - otherwise they would not take the chance. See if you can get away in making similar claims re blacks - you wont. The most consistent proof is the degree to which people feel free to talk in such terms as the Politicians and not fee any backlash. this has been a good litmus test and it is now.
14. The NO government shows no desire to really
Zvi   (06.20.12)
combat anti-Semitism, and Norwegian broadcasters are viciously anti-Israel, poisoning many of your population. THAT is the difference between NO and most other EU countries.
15. To: Erik at No. 12
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (06.20.12)
Keep posting. We're reading.
16. To: No. 10
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (06.20.12)
Sorry, but Israel is a Jewish state. We're entitled -- given Europe's sordid history with respect to Jews -- to be as rabidly anti-European as we want. Starting with Poland, whose history is arguably the ugliest. We have not forgotten Jewish history, and we most definitely have not forgotten Poland's history with respect to the Jewish people. Tread lightly.
17. Ms Furnes why survivors of Utoya compared Behring to Jews?
tf ,   herzliya il   (06.20.12)
Ms Furnes, I would like you to explain how the Utoya survivors compared themselves to Palestinians and Behring to Jews. This is indicative of a very deep pathological antisemitism. With all of the world's all to very real atrocities to choose from, these Norwegian teens chose the fiction of Jews deliberately and wantonly massacring children. That these teens chose Jews as their first 'go to' of representing terrorism and evil speaks volumes. It doesn't matter if on reflection they they retract their remarks, their initial choice speaks far more authoritatively about the way Norwegians think than any survey you can cite.
18. Sorry not cconvinced... actions speak louder than words
Daniel ,   IL _ TA   (06.20.12)
and in Norway's case well they scream hypocrasy and double faced anti israel standards, which can only be explained by antisemitism (right this is what differs Israel from the rest of the world). As a EU born Israeli I know her arguments... it is not us we do not hate jews... yeah right and by the way neither did their grandparents, which did not stop them from assiting the nazis with the shoah
19. by your own admission
steve from raleigh   (06.20.12)
58% of Norwegians are antisemites. Case closed.
20. Just wondering
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (06.20.12)
"If 38% of the population is anti-Semitic, why do 92% believe it is important to teach children about the Shoah?" Only in conjunction with trying to clear the vile name of Vidkun Quisling. Unfortunately for the author, most Jews are very well aware of his assiduous work in making the Telemark region of Norway (where most Jews lived) Judenrein at the behest of his Nazi masters. So teaching the Shoah doesn't focus so much on what happened to the Jews as it does a completely irrelevant attempt to expiate the memory of what happened to the Jews of Norway by blaming it upon one individual -- Quisling. In truth, Quisling had lots and lots of help from Norwegians. I have traveled extensively throughout the world. Norway is one of the most rigidly Jew hating (let's not be polite and call it "anti-Semitism;" it is full blown hatred) countries it has ever been my severe misfortune to visit. Must be that strong Lutheran streak. But the genesis of the hatred does nothing to change the reality of that hatred. It is my fervent hope that Norway soon gets overrun with all those Moslems and Arabs they have welcomed into their country. I will derive immense satisfaction in watching Norway disappear. I'll buy a Viking boat, set it alight, pour a glass of Aquavit and toast Norway as it vanishes into the mists of time. Good riddance.
21. Ms. Furnes why would a survivor of Utoya
Rod ,   Fargo N.Dakota   (06.20.12)
have this thought['"Some of my friends tried to stop him by talking to him. Many people think on the island that it was a test ... comparing it to how it is to live in Gaza. So many people went to him and tried to talk to him, but they were shot immediately." - Adrian Pracon']. If there wasn't anti Israel brainwashing going on in Norway
22. Then explain why Mullah Krakar isn't kicked out!
Scott ,   USA   (06.20.12)
The only reason that this terrorist scum is in Oslo is because Norsk leaders don't take his crimes seriously.
23. Kristina - I dare you to debate Gerstenfeld. Double dare you
Scott ,   USA   (06.20.12)
24. #10:You've just invented a non-existing phenomenon: Anti-
tom ,   tel aviv   (06.20.12)
Europeanism! That is so funny. Last time I've checked there was only one, truly global "Anti'ism" and that's Jew-hate. You know that too, but don't like to be reminded of it.
25. Norway doesn't hate Jews more than other Europeans
Rube Vogel ,   Jerusalem   (06.20.12)
Oh. I fell much better now.
26. # 16
Mike Carmel ,   Rishon le Zion   (06.20.12)
In the same way that you think that you are "entitled to be rabidly anti-European" (whatever that means) then someone sitting in Norway is entitled to be anti-Israel, even if not "rabidly" and perhaps more constructively. You don't have a monopoly on anti-this or anti-that. It works both ways. It's even called "democracy", but you wouldn't know much about respecting other people's opinions would you?
27. #4 Read and Learn; Sigmund Freud speech Vienna 1926
martin ,   uk   (06.20.12)
Occasion of his 70th birthday; "Only to my Jewish nature, did I owe the 2 qualities which had become indespensible to me on my hard road. Because I was a Jew, I found myself free from many prejudicies, which limited others in the use of their intellect. And being a Jew, I was prepared to enter opposition and to renounce agreement with the compact majority." Not for nothing was Austria and lower Germany the hotbed of Nazism, a tradition still enjoyed by the Jew haters in Austria. Unlike the Russkies, Jews did not treat you, the way you treated us. So yes, that makes us better than you
28. Alexandre,Nacy : Grossman ascribes most evil things to Israe
ab   (06.20.12)
and the leader of the Orphaned Land ,one Gefen is violently anti-Israeli. So they justify eventual Israel-haters " See,Jews&Israelis are with us!".
29. "Norway doesn't hate Jews"
Menachem ,   Israel   (06.20.12)
They "only" hate Israel -the homeland of the Jewish people. The Norwegian Jew-haters don't even have the guts to admit their pathological Jew-hatred. Would you buy it if someone said that he has nothing against Norwegians only against Norway?
30. What means hate?
Yael Schlichting ,   Qiryat Motzkin   (06.20.12)
Europeans have are a little more cautious with hate. Maybe, because they are rather cool tempered. Maybe we sometimes should call their behavior and their actions cold-hearted. It goes along with a very typical European problem, which is their very private perception of what justice means. In the case of modern anti-semitism this means, that they don't like Israel for it's strong military appearance and they see Arabs as victims. Arabs understood this very good and exploit this tendency. Many Europeans want to be goody-to-shoes and try to be on the side of the weak David. In contrast they see Israel as the strong Goliath, who is dominating the region and oppressing other peoples, continuously interferes into matters of other countries, like Iran and in general terms is aggressive. The many wars, Israel has fought and won serve as proof and nobody asks, if the Arab claim is true, that Israel started all this wars. In central Europe you often will be confronted with the view that Israel is to be blamed for all the wars and tension in the middle east. The legendary reputation of the institute from Tel Aviv is the breeding ground for numerous conspiracy theories. Only few have the steadyness to go into the matter and read several newspapers a day and of course history books, too. Hence they don't know. Sometimes I believe an opinion weights heavier than knowledge as long as the opinion is compatible with the mainstream, which leads us to the next typical European problem: CONFORMISM If you are not "normal" (whatever normal is) you have trouble. European societies in their core are intolerant. Today's tolerance has more to do with political correctness. People are not originally tolerant, they follow a social pressure. As a consequence, minorities still have big troubles to organize their lives together with the average and conform majority. There is a corridor of expectation and an accepted deviation, which is acceptable for the majority, everybody, who moves within the accepted deviation is member of the conformist majority. All others only get tolerated niches. So, Jews never really are accepted members of society, because their way of life, their social order, their culture and of course their religion are so strange to average Europeans, that it gives a good breeding ground for many weird myths about Jews. These myths live on, just like the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" in its core is unforgotten. This cancer of alienation together with the myth about Israels military strength causes a latent animosity, which manifests in strange pseudo-justice, which results from a primitive sense of moral and justice. See also: Gustav Radbruch Statutory Lawlessness and Supra-Statutory Law http://yaels-comments.blogspot.co.il/2012/02/hauptmen-mainmenu-impressum_07.html
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