Yishai, Steinitz found liable for Carmel disaster
Yaron Druckman
Published: 20.06.12, 15:59
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18 Talkbacks for this article
1. It's time for heads to roll.
Mark ,   Elrom   (06.20.12)
Let's see if there is anyone in the government that has the backbone to take responsibility and resign from their position. Too bad I already know the answer.
2. Sheetrit and Bar-On should have prevented it YEARS before.
3. Accountability
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (06.20.12)
Lindenstrauss thinks Steinitz is accountable for the 44 dead and writes "The scope of failures and neglect found...the failure to foresee the the extent of closing their eyes in the face of danger – that are attributed to government officials, mandate that they be unequivocally made to answer for these findings." Why isn't Lindenstraus calling for Peres, Netanyahu, Barak, Yosef and the rest of the corrupt gang of politicians who supported them to be held accountable for the 1000s of dead they caused with the "peace process"? Until he calls for such accountability, Lindenstraus will remain no more than a politicized farce of a comptroller.
4. Blame Yishai for the fire instead of Arabs who started it
What a nutcase!   (06.20.12)
5. Sidestepping real problem: poor firefighting aircraft policy
Dr. L. Brnd ,   San Diego, USA   (06.20.12)
Yeah, yeah, there was political infighting, budget debates and indifference by ministers and bureaucrats, what else in new in Israeli politics? The Carmel fire exploded out of control for one reason and one reason only - bad decisions made [and tolerated] regarding airborne firefighting capability. Instead of using heavy aircraft [old obsolete transports converted to water-bombers] and helicopters for firefighting, like the rest of the world uses, an exclusive contract was given to a crop-dusting company to use tiny one-engine crop dusters to deliver fire-fighting chemicals - way too little and operate from too high to do any good, need volume to knock down a fire in wind. Plus the crop dusting company gets to use the planes for their business, meaning they are not immediately available for emergencies. Worse, instead of using ammonium phosphate slurry like the whole rest of the world, Israel was forced to use an expensive French-made "firefighting gel", available in limited supply and hard to mix up on short notice, because the powers that are [linked to the crop dusting company, maybe?], got a law passed banning the use of ammonium phosphate slurry in Israel - almost certainly based on trumped up reasons. And the IAF, without explanation, decided in recent years to ban the use of IAF helicopters for emergency firefighting. And WORST OF ALL, the "fix" the government decided on consisted of -- more of the same!!!! More tiny crop-dusting planes, and more expensive French "gel", instead of doing it right. The "fix" even included an idiotic plan to fit the tiny crop dusting planes with pontoons, so they could more easily pick up water from lakes and the Med !!! Of course, this won't work in high winds, waves are too rough, and it takes hours to refit the planes with pontoons [and to recall them from crop-dusting jobs!]. Israel needs to ditch the scoundrels who back this failed firefighting method, and do it like the rest of the world. Send a delegation to the US and we will show you how to do it right, used transports and ammonium phosphate slurry. And get rid of that stupid ban on this standard chemical, AP slurry - exposing who was behind the anti-AP law will expose the idiots who caused the whole bad practice that failed. How do they have such a stranglehold on such an essential capability?
6. Bibi, it's all your fault, again
Sarah G. ,   Modiin, Israel   (06.20.12)
The report really is preposterous and just proves the Left will stop at nothing to bring down the present government. Imagine a supreme court justice ruling in the US stating that Obama, Holder and FEMA's chief were responsible for the California wildfires of 2007? Someone should be keeping a close eye on Lindenstrauss's bank account's (both in Israel and Switzerland) for large, unusual deposits.
7. Surely by now the U.S. south fires are known
Barbara ,   Haifa Israel   (06.20.12)
to all that read and hear news. The great American society couldn't put out these raging fires - so Israel must blame someone for the Carmel fire ? BS - get with it, people, the weather was against us on those days. I doubt that even the highest efficiency and best equipment couldn't have helped as long as the dry winds were in control.
8. To Barbara #7
Dave ,   Boulder, CO   (06.20.12)
As a trained wildland firefighter in the Rockies, I can tell you that yes, weather patterns and fuel loads have a great deal to do with fire behavior and the ability to contain such a blaze. However, the 44 people who died did so because of operational failures. Untrained 16-year-old's would NEVER be allowed near a raging wildland fire in the States. Israel has no formal wildland fire training. It uses structural equipment to fight wildland fire, and clearly has no command structure for such events.
9. Specifically Yishai refused donated vehicles because...
mea   (06.20.12)
they were given by Christian evangelical groups. Eight fire trucks, totally free including the shipping--turned down! Why? Because he saw it as some sort of high five to Jesus. Yishai has his focus on religion and not on practical everyday matters that are on a broader scope. This is why he is in the wrong department. maybe they should should make him Chief Rabbi instead of Chief Religious Toady. I am no fan of the evangelicals at all, but if the xtians could see the need and act on it why didn't Yishai?
10. Didn't the results of the investigation
Found to Arson? And if so wouldn't the perpetrator be responsible? ברוך שם הא
11. Why is this year different from all other years?
Orly ,   Jerusalem   (06.20.12)
1. Why did the Haredim burn down the Carmiel forest? 2. Why did the Haredim spit on that little girl? 3. Why did the Haredim kick that women off the bus when she wouldn't move to the back? 4. Why did the Haredim call that female soldier a slut?
12. There were no planes to drop fire retardent materials .
Bob Kirk ,   Orlando USA   (06.20.12)
Israel needed help from others who sent the planes that can carry fire-retardent liquids needed to stop forest fires. Israeli governments put off buying these planes until the disaster happened. That is often the case everywhere. People hope the worst doesn't happen and often act after the fact. Even in the U.S., firefighters in New Mexico are still fighting forest fires that have raged for many days despite the best equipment. Lindenstrauss makes some good criticisms but is mistaken in thinking that in other democracies, ministers simply resign. They usually say 'let's learn from this and do better next time'.
13. Show respect and
peter ,   tel aviv   (06.20.12)
live up to your respnsibility. Instead of claiming to earn a medal all those responsible should live up and step down. Rabin stepped down over his wifes bank account of a few thousand dollars. Yet you self adoring misfits as usual have only others to blame. In this case the person who shows your shortcomings. Get on a supertanker a fly out of your cosy offices.
14. Exaggerated accusations
Jake   (06.20.12)
The exaggerated accusations of "special responsiblity" against Israeli ministers are unjustified and unjustiable. In the evening of 6 December, police announced that a 14 year-old resident of Isfiya admitted to inadvertently starting the fire. The teen told investigators that after smoking a nargila, he threw a lit coal into an open area and was so shocked by the result that he returned to school without telling anyone what he had done. If the fire was not reported and was already burning out of control by the time it came to anyone's attention, how can "special responsibility" for the fire be assigned to government ministers?
15. #12 Bob
Dave ,   Boulder, CO   (06.20.12)
Currently we have a 63,000 acre wildland fire burning in Colorado. There are some one dozen planes and helicopters doing airdrops. But there are also over 600 wildland firefighters on the fire digging line, checking for hot spots, doing structure protection. None of those things can be done by air. In addition, air ops needs adequate visibility and stable air to fly. You cannot rely only on air drops. That is not how we work fire in the U.S., Bob
16. Putsch
michael Pielet ,   Israel   (06.20.12)
Another leftist putsch against the current government.
17. #8 - Dave
Devorah   (06.20.12)
Last week a friend sent me a petition regarding U.S. wildland firefighters. It had to do with their not receiving insurance benefits. Of course, I signed it because I think it's an outrage. I have seen (on television) the myriad of dangers you firefighters encounter and remain humbled by your courage. Kol hakavod!
18. Yishai must resign now !
Haim ,   TA   (06.21.12)
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