Opinion
Israel’s Sinai catastrophe
Hagai Segal
Published: 22.06.12, 16:26
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135 Talkbacks for this article
1. Scaremongers
Michael ,   Haifa   (06.22.12)
Ever society has little men on its political sidelines trying to scare the general public for their own political interests. Segal is one the smaller "little men"
2. Real Peace
joe Sombrero ,   uSA   (06.22.12)
Real Peace is not bought by Bribes blackmail corruption and wishful thinking. You can thank Carter Nixon Kissinger Dayan Peres Rabin for this debacle. Always keep enough land just incase they break the treaty as Patton said he did not want to fight over the same territory twice. If the people don't want peace there cannot be peace and war is doomed to repeat.
3. Win the hearts and minds
Jared ,   Stillwater, USA   (06.22.12)
Nothing last forever, you just have to renew things every now and then. Not leaving the desert or retaking it would not solve your problems. Winning wars and lands is not the solution. YOU MUST WIN THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE RESIDENTS OF THE REGION
4. part of the tyreaty was israel freeing west bank and gaza th
abdalla   (06.22.12)
5. Funny how many of us predicted this
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (06.22.12)
And were told that we were war mongers for stating that this would be the result. Well history proves us correct. We said the same about Gaza. History proves us correct. We say the same about the Golan and Shomron. Listen to us
6. That is not "all we can do"
Danny   (06.22.12)
If the treaty is violated then Israel should take back the Sinai. The issue is not giving land for peace, it is allowing the land to stay given up long after it is clear there is no peace.
7. Never give land for a false "peace"!
Father Abe   (06.22.12)
8. So much for land for peace
Carl   (06.22.12)
9. Israel has no choice but to recapure Sinai
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.22.12)
As I see it, Israel has no other choice but to reconquer Sinai, annex Sinai, expel the Egyptians, let Jews/Israelis settle down in Sinai and establish Israeli cities and crush the Egyptian army, navy and air force again. But this time Israel will keep Sinai forever. There will be no land for peace. There will be peace for peace or no peace at all. God Bless Israel, God Bless the Jewish People and God Bless Jerusalem.
10. Mr. Segal
solomon ,   bklyn   (06.22.12)
Please don’t forget the other side of the coin: 34 years of peace. Few, if any incursions. No need for the IDF to enter; neither in force nor small groups. No deaths due to war. It may have been a “mistake” in some sense, but we’ll have to wait to see how this pans out. If there will be war, chas v’chalila, it would have happened more than once during those 34 years.
11. Sinai
Yosef Y. MSc' ,   USA   (06.22.12)
Naivite - or wishful thinking by adults (such as the "government") is a punishable (or even criminal) offense. Jewish lives will be lost on this account. Never again.
12. The treaty with Egypt has paid off
Barry ,   Boston   (06.22.12)
Millions of dollars in defense costs have been saved by the peace treaty. Far fewer troops are needed along the Egyptian border than without the treaty. Countless lives have also been saved by preventing another Yom Kippur War from occurring. Egypt has also assisted Israel with dealing with Gaza.
13. Big Thinkers in big demand
Mike ,   Haifa   (06.22.12)
The greatest thinkers in history were mostly Jewish and yet it seems that we have no big thinkers in Israel, definitely not in the leadership arena. In the future war between Israel and Egypt, given that by then a real Leader with Jewish vision and conviction who understands the concep of Jewish destiny be in power (Feiglin), Israel should unleash the might and fury of the IDF on the Egyptian army and obliterate it. Then declare sovereignty over the whole peninsula and populate it with Jews who will be making aliya to Israel from Europe which by then will be both fully and overtly anti-Semitic and its economy in crumbles. The world wont lift a finger to stop Egyptian invasion and war and wont lift a finger to reverse Israel's applying its sovereinty over the area.
14. #3
Sioux   (06.22.12)
you mean the same way the americans did with the natives like us?
15. Giving land for peace is like ....
Iranian Hunter   (06.22.12)
Giving land for peace is like giving gold for stock in wall street.
16. But YESTERDAY Mofaz met Obama to discuss how to do the same
Alan ,   SA   (06.22.12)
with respect to Yehuda and Shomron! Does any sane human being think it wont be different
17. Egypt has to retake the Negev to swap it with the West Bank
observer ,   Egypt   (06.22.12)
18. Michael #1: Little men
Steve   (06.22.12)
You wrote: "Every society has little men on its political sidelines trying to scare the general public for their own political interests...." Right. Little men like Winston Churchill who was called a scaremonger and an alarm-monger by his fellow citizens throughout much of the nineteen thirties because he warned of the Nazi (Hitler) menace. "Neville Chamberlain was not only the choice of the Conservative MPs but of the general public." How did that work out?
19. #1 Blind "peace activists"
Rachel ,   US   (06.22.12)
Like Michael and Shjmon Peres deliberately close their eyes to what is right in front of the them in order to chase after the illusion of peace with those who want to kill us.
20. #10 why? Didn't break out with Syria.
Danny   (06.22.12)
21. An incredibly shortsighted article.
Eugene ,   Israel   (06.22.12)
34 years of no-war with Egypt saved probably thousands of lives..have you looked up the number of Israeli casualties in the previous wars with Egypt, Segal ? It also enabled Israel to reroute huge sums of money towards the development of the state. "Yet one clear day, we found ourselves without the Sinai, and without peace." again, if we signed the treaty last week and the Islamist would have came to power today your article might have had some merit, but it's not what happened and your article is merit-less. And lastly, Islamists coming to power in Egypt doesn't mean and inevitable war.
22. To nr 10 - I disagree. We already know the consequences
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.22.12)
34 years of "peace" existed because of Israeli military superiority, Egyptian military inferiority, Egyptian fear of Israel's might and American dollars that have been generously pumped in in millions to the thugs in Hosni Mubarak's former regime. Egypt didn't agree to peace out of genuine love for Israel. During Mubarak's years in power, mosques, schools, universities, mass media, newspapers and government institutions were filled to the brim with Jew hatred and hatred for Israel. More than 90% of the Egyptians are hostile to Israel. When I say "hostile" I mean hostile as in "hating and killing all Jews" - that's the level of hostility I'm talking about. I wouldn't mind if Israel would bomb Egypt into oblivion and flatten their country to the ground and destroy 80 million Egyptians - for the simple reason that the Egyptians are as hateful of Jews as the Nazis used to be during WW2. In the same way as the allies during WW2 destroyed Germany and forced the Germans to submission, Israel must do the same to Egypt and the Arab states. Alternatively to finish them all off. But continuing in the status quo "wait and see" approach and endangering Israeli lives is no option. Mubarak himself was a perverted anti-Semite and an enemy of Israel. He refrained from attacking Israel because he knew from a practical point of view that Egypt would lose - again, and the USA wouldn't give Egypt any economic support if they had attacked Israel. Israel didn't have 34 years of peace but 34 years of absence of war. And Sinai in Egyptian hands has been a hotbed for terrorism, kidnappings of Westerners, smuggling of drugs and illegal immigrants. Israel gains nothing from allowing Sinai to be in Egyptian hands but Israel gains everything if Israel keeps Sinai and does what I recommended in talkback nr 9. I
23. You forget one thing, #9
Brad ,   USA   (06.22.12)
In that event, Europe and USA will have no choice but to allow Egypt and other Arabs to unite against Israel. For Israel will invade sovereign territory of another country. And America would have no choice but to sever ties with Israel, despite AIPAC and others. This all would be enough for you to crush 90% of Arab country troops, no doubt... BUT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE RELIEF. You see, from Ben Gurion, over Golda Meir till today, all your officers knew one thing - its not about firepower, its about sustainability (i.e. what after we unload our shells and defeat their army, how much men and bullets we will have for second wave). Arab states are FAR in front of Israel when it comes to sustainability, when it comes to menpower and financial resources. They lose 500.000 tanks? Who cares. Saudi will finance new 2 million. They loose 1 million of Arab soldiers? Who cares, there are several hundred millions ready more. You loose 500.000 tanks, and you loose 1 million men... Well... Your only ace in the sleeve is (non-existent) 200 nuclear warheads. Which is excellent deterrent weapon, but if you use it as assault... Synagogues in Europe and in USA as well would burn, Jews would be killed in streets, and holocaust would be over and over. Face it, you are right now between the rock and the hard place and your superiors know that. By my opinion, they are playing terrific game here. But you can kiss Sinai goodbye, at least till mechiach comes.
24. The other side of the coin
m   (06.22.12)
Begin, the lover of Jews was the first pm to throw Jews out of their homes. FRom then on, everything goes down, even blood shed and after Amona it will happen, just like Altalena. Excuses will be found.
25. Hope Bibi et al understand this will eventually also happen
Shalom   (06.22.12)
if they give away Judea & Samaria. Unfortunately, I'm afraid there is no way to change money worshiping fools. And Islam will eventually get us from all sides. G-d's punishment for not doing it His way to begin with.
26. Who arrives late the station, belates the train.
Istvan ,   BUDAPEST HUNGARY   (06.22.12)
It is too late, Sinai belongs to Egypt. There is one chance to correct the mistakes by Begin & co : to demand an independent bedouin state east of Vadi el Arish. This would unite with the Gaza arabs under the name of Republic of SINGA, and the Middle East conflict is solved.
27. To nr 23 - I have forgotten nothing, but you are...
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.22.12)
...severely detached from reality. Arab states have historically speaking acted quite independently of what Europe and USA tells them to do. Israel despite being outgunned and outnumbered destroyed the military might of the Arab states in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973. During the 1982 Lebanon War, there was a famous dog fight where Syrians lost 86 Syrian fighter planes and where Israel didn't lose a single fighter plane. Just an example. Invasion of another country's territory in self defense is LEGAL. And second: the peace deal was land for peace and since they refuse us peace they deserve no land. Period. Sustainability is dependent on you outlasting your enemies and crippling their capabilities or obliterating them on a permanent basis - not to stall the problem and "wait and see" out of fear. Your ignorance shines through. No country has 500.000 tanks. USA has about 9000 tanks, Russia about 22.000, Egypt about 3900, Syria about 4900 and Israel about 3200. But military superiority is based on air force superiority which is based on 1) training 2) motivation 3) technology/quality and 4) number of planes. Israel has the 5th largest air force in the world. A good link: http://www.globalfirepower.com/aircraft-total.asp If you doubt our nuclear capability little boy you are more then welcome to test us. Regarding progroms, massacres and a new Holocaust on American and Europe streets: you are delusional. Israel has beaten up the Arab states in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 and invaded Sinai twice - in 1956 and 1967. There were no massacres or Holocausts. But Israel will have to finish off the Arab states when the time comes. Sinai will become Israeli if Egypt attacks us. PS: I don't believe in Messiah.
28. Hagai Segal, so tranparent
PaulZion ,   Israel   (06.22.12)
I read the title and I said to myself: Hagai Segal. I then opened the article - and guess what? Hagai Segal. So transparent, so shallow and superficial. 34 years of peace and relative prosperity count for nothing in his eyes. And he calls himself journalist! He is nothing more than a harpy hatemonger.
29. Oy vey!
john   (06.22.12)
This op-ed writer is just killing me. He is pure passion and zero rationale. Israel is left with no peace with Egypt? We have peace with Egypt. Is it perfect? No. So what? It's peace and it is very, very likely the treaty will remain in tact. YNET please find a new op-ed writer - one that actually understands policy and strategy
30. Alexader!
Yosi   (06.22.12)
Kudos!...i like the way you think...wish more Israelis and their 'leaders' would think like you...you should do some activism not just words..you have a powerful message that should be heard...i can be a soldier if you are ready to muster troops for your ideal....post ur info and lets do something...
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