As long as you can blackmail and threaten coalition governments..threaten force in the streets, your pathology will thrive. But a day of reckoning will yet come

Don't depend on others for everything

Why can't the ultra orthodox serve the country in some way catered to their needs and of the country's instead of sucking the country dry? There is an unjustified arrogance that this segment of Israeli society emits that has no reason. Having served with "Bnei Yeshiva" soldiers, was one of the best experiences I had and I felt Confident going into battle with them. The only reason I can find for this rejection by the ultra orthodox community is just the inertia to change, in the same notion of adjusting the religion to modern day. The only way to change this is for them to be cut from all forms of assistance by the state if they are unwilling to contribute.

The whole article misses the point. National service is not just military service. Just as young religious women and many Arabs do sherut Leumi working in community centres, hospitals schools etc these Haredi men can get off their arses and do something to help the country. If they so despise the secular Israeli society then they can do their national service in institutions within the Haredi Sector. Maayanei Yehoshua Shaarei Tsedek are religious hospitals there are enough institutions they can do sherut leumi in and never see a secular Jew! Likewise Israeli Arabs can undertake sherut Leumi national service in Arab schools, hospitals Matnasim wherever. These two sectors need to stop taking from the country and start giving. They can do this by doing Sherut Leumi in their own communities.

words of wisdom but they only compound and confirm my contention that we are headed for a civil war. The basis for this assumption is that for one side it is unacceptable to serve in the military while the other side sees it as unacceptabe to bear the burden while others receive legal exemption. A wall of principles is being built by both sides and a clash is inevitable.

Dear Author-You have in effect threatened civil war if the draft affects the ultra- orthodox -Question, since you have no allegiance to the current State of Israel, should we split off the Haredi areas as independent entities? And who will protect you should that happen? Think carefully because maybe we should take you up on this...

No way am i as a secularist going to accept the jingoistic rhetoric of this article. if we are all supposed to be equal in the eye of God, what right do these people have to be elitist? if they are not prepared to serve the country why do we throw huge amounts of money at them when there are so many in need who have served their country and in many cases have the scars both physically and mentally to show for it.

Seems to me these greedy characters think of themselves as being Leeches. It's a case of feed all you like but ask for nothing in return. No wonder the arabs are laughing at the Jews. And those haredims ----- what do they give to Israel in return for ALL Israel gives to them?????

statistics computer applications , etc either . They want only to exploit the state , take money , but not contribute at all . We , the seculars , are also becoming MORE EXTREMISTS , it's that that they achieve ! so no IDF , no money . Serve or leave . ASAP

It's a Chillul Hashem that haredim consider themselves above serving with the rest of Israel ... that their particular needs supercede those of the Jewish nation. Shame, shame, shame on you! I say, if you can't give to this nation, then don't take from thsi nation. Refuse any and all government funds and benefits! Oh, can't get by without help? Then buck up and serve like everyone else.

Take that welfare teat out of their mouths and you can bet the farm you will get them to run to the army inorder to get their working papers. Cut the payments to the BS yeshivas that do nothing but make most of these kids stupid and poor. The Rabbis of these yeshivas are selfish schnorrers who pretend they want to 'save' these kids but in actual fact enslave these kids to perpetual poverty. The problem is that the dumb parents who entrust their kids to these 'RABBIS' are schnorrers themselves.

Haredi unemployment and general ignorance stem from the same source as the Haredi refusal to join the IDF: the self-referential and wholly inadequate world view of your leaders toward secular learning. You can't serve in the IDF because you need even more years of studying the exact same stuff that kept your from getting the education you need to enter the world of academia. So you appeal to us "secularists" to, what? Reason with your leaders that they should educate their community in the subjects and skills that will get them the goodies in life? But don't tell them that you, too, should risk your G-d-given, precious life to serve the Jewish people! Nah! Now way! Gotta crack down and study more Torah!

and tell me please what would have happened had the Jews in the time of Joshua and King David said the same bs? Would the earth have swallowed them up like Korach? Would there have been a Beit Hamikdash? Would there have been the Malchus of Israel at all? Or maybe they all just sat on their bums pretending to serve Hashem by analyzing which ox is held responsible if one gored the other? You think Kingdoms are built that way? get real and stop perpetuating the "virtual" Jew. Yes you may actually get dirt on your hands planting a tree, so what? Nisht far dir? ober git far goyishe yidden? deine avoodim, yoh?

All able men must serve in some capacity. 1. Combat units or 2. Support units (non-combatives) The last resort for those who are truly afraid or consciencious objectors would be some sort of a "Shirut Leumi" service connected to the Armed forces. They will be better off after their 2 years, counted as equal in Israeli society without anyone pointing their fingers at them. Trust me, this would be the best solution for everyone.

Most if not all are pretty upset at the Haredi refusal to serve and rightfully so. This is NOT Haredi bashing.... but if all Haredims behave like those filthy Neturei Karta demons with their refusal to recognize Israel or refusal to support it, I too will have to stand against them.

They see themselves as the soldiers of god. What secular Israel has to do is shun them in every way. They will be no use in the army, they are no use to anybody, they are an embarrsement to the Jewish nation which they are not a part of.

There are at least 6 non-combatant soldiers for every fighter (combatant -- kravi) soldier in the army. It means that only about one fourth of the soldiers are ever "in danger." Does the fact that they all wear the uniform make such a big difference? There are other ways to serve as well. The haredim claim that their studying and praying is contributing to the success of the army. No one can disprove that contention. Talk to them and try to understand their POV. Perhaps you will find some merit in their claims. At least it could be possible to realize that they are no worse than the multitude of jobniks who are needed to support each combat soldier. -- A father with a few sons in combat units

The solution seems obvious to me. No need for forced induction into IDF or even tanks in Bnei Brak. Stipends only for those with National Service Tueda. This would give a choice to any young person haredi or hiloni without prejudice or favoritism to decide to serve the state for a couple of years and receive state support afterwards, or not to partake in the duties of the state and not to receive my money for his/her support.. The argument of the author of the article I find disgusting in a democratic society - give favours to a minority or their will be a price tag. For that I am much happier in paying my taxes - to support draft evadors in prisons rather than in yeshivot.

by Israel bad enough? Do you want to completely eradicate the Torah from the rest of haredim?

whether they're in Yeshiva or not. Religious Jews have no business mingling daily with those who are trying to destroy us spiritually.

Your soul is already destroyed and I can assure you that your "god" will not have mercy upon it. I have pity on you.

Not that there is any shortage of religious boys who service in combat units -- we've all seen them, wearing kipahs, and some with tzitzes fringes outside their beltsm -- and recognized their kovas and their badges. Let the ultra-orthodox do national service. Three years. Let them do some type of Nahal service that would not involve actual combat. Let them drive ambulances and act as EMTs. Let them patrol neighborhoods. What is wrong with that? Anyone who may wish to volunteer for a combat unit -- by all means. But for those who do not -- find them something else to do. If nothing else, each individual will at least free up a pair of hands,

The people who think like the writer of this article, should not be citizens of Israel. If you are a citizen of Israel, you not only have rights, but you have obligations to the country and to its people. The only way the Haredim can pay back Israel is by GOING AND SERVING IN THE ARMED FORCES. Why should others get killed to protect you? You have to do your bit. Just studying Torah and praying does not help protect our borders. There are many religious men who study Torah and go to the army, work at regular jobs. They manage it all! I do not see any reason for all these Yeshiva boys not to go to the Army.

after decades of being subsidized by the "secular" community, just when there's a ray of light for the good ol' yeshiva going boys to contribute back to society, you want us to back down. they don't have to do the army. any form of national service or contribution towards the good of society will be an amazing start!... you ingrate.

Institute the draft for all Israelis 7 years hence and as the author suggests increase secular education in the sciences, math and humanities for all with clear benchmarks and institutional incentives to participate. Give Arabs and Haredim a true stake in the economic model emanating from tel aviv and a compromise on both fronts will evolve. And as these two minority culture interact constructively with the rest the worldview and lifestyle of all of us will benefit. I would call it Operation kugel and knafeh.

When a portion of the population which is growing exponentially will not work or serve in the military, who take welfare from those whose work to support their families and pay taxes and who are a dwindling portion of the population, who do not educate their children to be productive members of society, who blindly follow the orders of rabbis who are accountable to no one, who treat teirn women as second class citizens, then the societal model is flawed and is not sustainable! I fear for the future of Israel.

But not against Israel's enemies. What is needed is a Kahane plan for them. Send them to Poland, Morocco, and for the indigenous ones build a ghetto and hope that there are enough of their kind in Brooklyn to support them. They should be declared heretics or whatever they did to Spinoza and not treated as Jews.

I know where you are coming from, Chaim...but they are either part of Israel or they are not! If they are and they ought to be, they should serve like anyone else. See my comment @ #15 & #16. I pray, let them not be like the Neturei Karta. In the name of justice and our kings David and Solomon, they should serve.

The Talmud and Rambam say that even a bride leaves her Chupah to fight to defend the Jews. so these people are not even following there own religion. They are just cowards and covering themselves in the name of religion. Give them no welfare, cut off any institution where the students do not serve in either the army or Sherut Liumi.