Opinion
Don’t bash yeshiva students
Yehuda Kotkes
Published: 07.07.12, 14:25
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1. bad headline good article
Ethan ,   Eilat   (07.07.12)
2. To the author
Sagi   (07.07.12)
Your choice of words, "waste" is very offensive. I demand an apology.
3. "Don't bash"
Raptor   (07.07.12)
That is exactly what should be done. They should be "bashed" back into reality and sanity.
4. Jewish salafi / wahhabi?
Iranian Hunter   (07.07.12)
Lived on welfare, parasitic. Don't want to contribute, use religion as an excuse. Seculars read Torah too and do mitzvah too ? And they serve ? These "24/7 yeshiva students" are modern day monks. If they becomes the majority, Israel will be gone. Even Daud (David) serve in the military, and he is way more religious and torah observant than these monks will ever be.
5. The author writes....
Sailor ,   USA   (07.07.12)
"I can still admire those who choose this kind of life..." Those who choose this life style choose to be members of a cult who: - Marginalize women and treat them as second class citizens - Purposely choose a life style where they don't work to support their families, and gladly accept government welfare - Purposely have a huge number of children which they can't support without government welfare - Do not give their children an education so they can be employable - The most extreme of which do not accept the State of Israel - Do not use their own critical judgment and common sense, but blindly follow the instructions of rabbis who lack broad life experience and who are accountable to know one I don't know what there is to admire. These people live in a world of darkness. They will never advance the human condition through scientific discovery or the humanities. I feel sorry for them.
6. This is absolutely ridiculous!
Carla ,   Tel Aviv   (07.07.12)
Haredim are the biggest problem of this country.
7. Waste of time?
Mika ,   Jerusalem IL   (07.07.12)
Soldiers actually serve a function. Yeshiva students don't. Before you even try to compare the two, look at who dies to protect the homeland and who sits all day in a room and studies something totally irrelevant to physical protection of land and people. Yeshiva students are leeching money off the state and taking away from those who actually do something for Israel.
8. so, all other have to waste time but not the haredim? SHAME
Ze'ev ,   Nbg, germany   (07.07.12)
So, you not only want the money from the other resident, you also have no honor and let them do the "hard" part of defending the country all alone, instead of helping!? Zahal is wasted time?!! Know what? Do all the hard working and serving people al least one favor, LEAVE!!! Nobody needs you and your friends there! GO AWAY!
9. Parasitic and Ignorant
Joshua ,   Rishon Le Zion   (07.07.12)
I agree with all the comments above, especially the one which says to leave Israel, you don't believe in the country, but you are happy to take money from its government. Shame on you!
10. "WASTE"- You pompous moron!!!
Arie ,   BaGolan   (07.07.12)
‎"waste" Without Tzahal there would be no Israel. ALL Israelis must serve - either in Tzahal or in National Service. In what universe is their lives more valuable than anyone else's. Serve or be denied the taxpayer paid-for subsidies and benefits veterans receive. Give them the choice. They can't have it both ways
11. Don't glorify a dysfunctional system
Avramele   (07.07.12)
Torah scholarship like graduate studies at a university had social value. However only a small percentage of secular scholars spend an entire lifetime in that pursuit and even those that do must produce scholastically. A part of the solution is for the Haredi sector to introduce secular high school studies in line with public standards and to allow subsidies and deferments only to the most gifted Talmud scholars. The rest should find their future in the larger economy and army or community service. Universal yeshiva studies into adulthood has no Jewish historical precedent before the creation of the state and the manipulation of the state budget by corrupt Haredi politicians.
12. Kotkes, did you read what you wrote?
Baruch ,   Houston/Israeli   (07.07.12)
Yeshive students are entitled, their time and blood is more important than ours, their sitting on their hands and teaching their children how to divide our country is better than we who make their precious lives safe, entitlement, entitlement. Kotkes, you lead a narcissistic self destructive impoverished movement. Go home and spit on children.
13. Yeshivat Esder
deavman ,   Acco, Israel   (07.07.12)
As someone who lives in Acco, 100 meters from the newly built Yeshivat Esder, I can tell you that the only waste here is not three years of service but the actual Yeshiva itself. On my way to work and back, I pass nearby the building and I can say that I have never seen more than 2 or 3 "students" there. Most of them are absentees and will probably will be found working somewhere, or at home. They will show up at the premises only when they get their warning sms message telling them to hurry because the inspector is coming for "surprise " visit. And yes I will be bashing the Yeshiva "students" as they are cynical, lazy profiteers.
14. This is the best argument?
Sebastian ,   Jerusalem   (07.07.12)
If this is the best argument that haredim have for the purpose of not "wasting" three years in the army, it clearly shows how wrong they are. Lots of people willingly suffer studying and working, not only yeshiva students. They should not be cannon fodder for the torah student.
15. Great Article!
Yakov ,   Tel Aviv   (07.07.12)
Not much, can go further to define the Haredim as out of control, more than this article. The statements, while offensive and insensitive, show exactly how out of touch these people are. Nothing serves better, than articles like this, to drive change to our society.
16. Yeshiva students need to start paying own bills
Rachel ,   US   (07.07.12)
17. Load of nonsense
Devorah ,   Givatayim, Israel   (07.07.12)
This article does not make any sense. People choose different lifestyles and give up different pleasures for all sorts of reasons. I have some friends who sleep 4 hours a night and eat no junk food because they train for marathons early every morning, and they'd have to serve in the army. Army or national service looks beyond the individual differences of people and communities and recognizes that whatever else, we all have the responsibility to serve and protect the country. Suggesting that anyone deserves to not serve, especially as the community becomes a larger percentage of the overall population, is ridiculous and unsustainable.
18. Utter nonsense
Sidney ,   USA   (07.07.12)
Does he think that medical students, engineering students, science students, etc. do not lead lives of hard, time consuming studies? They all serve in the IDF. Moreover what he defines as moral others call stupid, e.g. not listening to women singing.
19. Sacrificed their MANHOOD
roxanne ,   haifa   (07.07.12)
20. David was a warrior! Waste of time?
roxanne ,   Haifa   (07.07.12)
21. Give up?
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (07.07.12)
These are things they wouldn't do anyway because their religion opposed it!! Now they want to have it both ways? Oh, wait, they always have wanted to have it both ways.
22. Ynet should not have given this article a stage
Avi   (07.07.12)
The sub title alone is infuriating and unacceptable. I'm just speechless.
23. 3 YEARS IN THE ARMY IS EQUAL TO 12 YEARS studying THE TORAH
Furious Sgt. Jew ,   ATLANTA GA USA   (07.07.12)
THE IDF INFORMATION, THE PHYSICAL BUILD-UPS, THE BASIC TRAINING, THE ADVANCED TRAINING, THE LIFESTYLE OF LIVING CLOSELY INTIMATELY WITH OTHERS IS MORE OF A QUALITY LEARNING EXPERIENCE THAT YOU GIVE CREDIT FOR. IDF /TORAH studies' comparison, on the basis of wasted time, is just one person's estimate and forecasting...it's just dubious OPINION...frankly I personally see most Torah studies as a complete waste of time, energy, money and human intelligence, but that's my opinion... just do the 3 year training to become a p[roficient real soldier/protector of your people, so some can study whatever...IDF training and study the holy Torah before you go to sleep... worst case, you heredi can throw your hagadah's at the enemies that are tring their best to kill you and destroy your Torah studies...it is the army that protects you so you can "study" and not "waste" your time.
24. Give Up Pleasures Like Work, Paying Taxes, Defending Israel
Seth ,   Washington, DC   (07.07.12)
25. Yeshiva is a choice
Nitsan ,   Los Angeles, USA   (07.07.12)
Those who serve in the army don't choose to do so, they must. Many would likely choose other avenues. But since their chosen dreams cannot get in the way of their obligations, it is only fair and fitting that the choice to go to Yeshiva is delayed by the same obligation.
26. what happened to torah ve avodah?
jeremy greene ,   chicago   (07.07.12)
I am not a religious person and I respect religious views immensely. However, I have a deeper respect for the individuals who are religious, study torah, yet at the same time, contribute to their nation. I had the honor of serving in the IDF and the best/bravest soldiers/warriors were the kippa seruga yeshiva type. I do not really care how much Torah someone studies because at the end of the day, that is not going to protect our people during a state of war. Furthermore, if someone wants to study Torah and do nothing else, they should think twice before they get married at 19-20, have a dozen children, not work and cause social havoc for the rest of the state. CONTRIBUTE IN SOME FORM OR WAY AND THEN COMPLAIN LIKE A NORMAL/EQUAL INDIVIDUAL OF SOCIETY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
27. An observation
Bertram ,   LONDON, UK   (07.07.12)
If the 'way of life' so described was characteristic of an indivdual rather than of a community we might judge that individual as being psychologically disturbed. Words and phrase such as 'schizophrenic' (hearing inner voices which issue commands) and obsessive-compulsive behaviour come readily to mind. Howere, since these are deemed to be religious attributes, no problem.
28. An ideal image
Raphael ,   Netanya   (07.07.12)
Besides those hard studying bahurim yeshiva, I know several swinging party enjoying hard drinking nightclubbers, who suddenly reaching 17 1/2 years, felt attracted by religious studies shortly before being drafted.
29. not nice
Little Sam ,   USA   (07.07.12)
we visited Israel to be with four son, just out of the IDF. A week later, an orthodox man told him "you act like a goy" because you do not read torah 3 times a day and do not keep kosher.Son said: I was in army to protect you. Man said: Hashem will take care of us.
30. many sacrifice
Larry ,   Hollywood, FL   (07.07.12)
However much one admires the self-sacrifice of Torah students, it's a personal choice. People at Yoga ashrams and centers for Buddhist meditation practice the same rigourous discipline. Should all such folk be free from national service? The idea is absurd.
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