Opinion
Masters and servants
Nahum Barnea
Published: 08.07.12, 18:41
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
18 Talkbacks for this article
1. You are all suckers
Joseph ,   usa   (07.08.12)
if you allow this issue to devide Isreal into differant camps.Your neighbors are loving this. Stop this nonsense.
2. No.1, I gotta feelin', a feelin' deep inside, oh yeah
mea   (07.08.12)
that you are either just another parrot for the evangelicals americans and soy cannot fathom the depth of the issue or that it wouldn't bother you to send your kid to die while your neighbors kid sits home and reads books. Either way, epic fail.
3. Separate religion and state to end the problem.
Michael ,   California, USA   (07.08.12)
Religion mixed with politics is deadly. It should not have happened, but then there was no motivation for a constitution. A state was born with a narrow view on what it is for, a state with an unclear purpose. So, religion became a purpose in itself. Write your own "end of the story" scenario.
4. dont blame Bibi
zionist forever   (07.08.12)
Firstly this is not something Bibi can be blamed for, if we are looking for a scapegoat currently in the Knesset look to Barak because the Tal Law was his baby when he was PM. Now thanks to Israel's system of coalition government reversing it is near impossible. Its easy to condemn Bibi but he has a coalition to hold together and if he holds an election and wins he will still probably need the religious block to form a coalition and they will not join if he pushes for haredi in the military. If Bibi loses the election whoever wins will need the religious block and they will not join them if they insist on haredi in the army so Bibi is in a no win situation. The bulk of the protestors don't realize this and see it as Bibi coming down on the side of the haredi and nothing Bibi says will convince them otherwise. The famous faces non of them give a damn they are there to advance their careers As soon as she left Kadima Livni started talking about forming her own party so she needs to be seen as supporting the popularist issues like this. Dan Halutz is probably going to at some stage form his own party now he has quit Kadima encouraging all the people who joined because of him to also quit. Gabbi Ashkenazi is in cool off mode right now but he has made it very clear already he wants to join Kadima when thats over. Nitzan Horowitz he is just far left and Meretz like Hamas more than they like haredi because its a very anti religion party. Yair Lapid, he is the king of popularist politics. The man has nothing of any substance to offer the public but he is the famous Yair Lapid and he has Obam's gift for telling people exactly what they want to hear. Best way to do something about this issue is not to go out protest and allow mob law to rule instead hold quiet discussions with the Rebbe's of the various haredi sects. Its the spiritual leaders you need to convince if you want change because if the Rebbe's support the change the politicians will have no choice but to also support change.
5. Protest marks the beginning of the Jewish Spring in Israel
Steve Benassi ,   Silver Bay, MN USA   (07.08.12)
...throwing off of the extreme right wing powers that dominate Israel today, seeking true democracy, equal rights, and equal responsibility for all, Arab and Jew alike.
6. Bibi sweated from watching Ariel Sharon suffering
(07.08.12)
from the Heavenly punishment he got. Bibi is afraid he's next in line.
7. Bibi was sweating while saying Avinu Malkeinu
(07.08.12)
with the rest of the world to nullify the decree of the reshaim in Israel.
8. #4 Zionist, I am missing Yair Lapid's weeklies.
Michael ,   California, USA   (07.08.12)
How can you say he has only what's "populist" to say? Did you read the responses he was getting every week to his columns? Sadly, I now read your populist views and suffer from toothaches that come with it.
9. To: No. 5
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (07.08.12)
Again, you are only demonstrating your ignorance. Exemption from military service for Torah study is opposed by all segments of Israeli society -- from the far right to the extreme left. The reasons vary, but reflect the overwhelming opinion of Jewish Israelis. There are a fair number of Arab citizens of Israel who do not want to serve their nation. Do you support their desire to remain exempt from military service, or do you think that compulsory military or national service should extend to Arabs as well? What about Moslem women? Assuming they are not instantly married upon completing high school, should they be exempt from service? Should they be barred from attending university because they haven't served? You have absolutely no idea about the complex nature of Israeli society. Perhaps you should refrain from addressing the subject at least until you have spent some time in Israel. You also put your ignorance on display by referring to a "Jewish Spring." Don't you understand that Israel is a democracy -- a healthy one -- and what you are seeing is a free and open forum of ideas. Don't confuse that with what is going on in the Arab world.
10. To No. 3 Michael - A Constitution
Adam Neira ,   Paris, France   (07.08.12)
Yes if the State of Israel had a constitution it would help things greatly. A good constitution helps define and delineate boundaries, roles and responsiiblities for all organs and members of the state or kingdom. Things also do not have to be that complicated. P.S. I think there are some decent constitutional drafts ready to be presented for all to see in the very near future. I have been working on one for quite awhile...
11. #10 The Constituion in Israel
(07.08.12)
is the oldes in the world aka the Torah.
12. 10
Zionist forever   (07.09.12)
The problem with drafting a constitution 64 years after independence is who is going to draft it and how to keep politics out of it. Do we include peace with Arabs ? Do we mention national service ? Do we mention social justice issues ? Pre state it's easy because you have ideals and there is no party politics involved. What Israel needs more than a constitution is a practical electoral system. Coalition government means policies are decided behind closed doors so coalitions can be formed. It's not goo for democracy because individuals are not directly elected and the vote is split much thinner giving single issue parties a disproportionate amount of power. In the current Knesset nearly 50% of the seats are occupied by single issue parties and next election you add the likes of Yair Lapid and may end up with single issue parties on trolling more seats thn the 3 mainstream ones. We need a system of 3-4 parties maximum, all MKs elected directly and th party with the most seats runs the country alone for a fixed term.
13. What If Seculars Used IDF To Dodge Torah?
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim   (07.09.12)
14. To 11. The Value of Words
Adam Neira ,   Paris, France   (07.09.12)
Yes the Tanach can be the basis for a constitution for Israel that will help now and well into the 21st Century and beyond. BTW, the Tanach is part : Genealogy; Drama; Lawmaking and Interpretation; Jurisprudence; Romance; War Battles; Power Dynamics; Place naming; Object Referencing; Chronology of Actual Events; Prophecy; Allegory; Metaphor ; VIP’s and Wise Counsel. Weighing up the relevance of the different pieces should be left to very wise souls. The Tanach is the most important book in the world. The 79,976 words of the Pentateuch assume primacy. The "value" of all communications can be rated. Certain words carry more weight than others.
15. is the oldes in the world aka the Torah.
peakman ,   brooklyn   (07.09.12)
1. #10 The Constituion in Israel is the oldes in the world aka the Torah. good and the torah says everybody serves in the army no exemption given for torah learning
16. Sarah, I support Palestine Israel, Integration of ALL Arabs
Steve Benassi ,   Silver Bay, MN USA   (07.09.12)
...where Arabs and Jews in ALL territories, including Gaza and the West Bank, must obey the same laws, not one law for Jews, and another law for everyone else. If the law says 18 year old men and women must serve, regardless of race or religion, I support that. Integration also means equality, in the military, government, workforce, housing, opportunity, voting rights, and especially in the rule of law. This is what took place in the United States during WWII, during the Civil Rights movement, and during the Vietnam War. "Flower Power"in the 60's, from the Left, led to America's first Black President, Barack Hussein Obama, in 2008. Which led to the Arab Spring, which is leading to the Jewish Spring in Israel, again, from the Left.
17. To 12. Zionist Forever
Adam Neira ,   Paris, France   (07.10.12)
The timeline of the Redemption, i.e. Counter-balancing of the dark forces of the world by the energies of light is interesting. The US Constitution is an elegantly simple document that has lasted more than 230 years. A suitable, relevant and all encompassing yet inclusive document could be drawn up. There are people alive today on the Planet with the requisite skills and divine mandate to do the job. As the saying goes sometimes you need to find people outside of the box who are free of the petty political machinations to solve a problem. I do believe that the Gordian Knot can be cut forever. The State of Israel is an intrinsic part of the divine jigsaw puzzle. G-d does have a plan... P.S. It has been prophesied that the Messianic Kingdom will be an enduring one. Which regime fits under which umbrella ? The Zionist one or the Messianic one ?
18. # 4
Birdi ,   Israel   (07.10.12)
Zionist is correct in that the Rebbes have the most influence on their flock. No political party can win an election here without the Haredim as a coalition.
Back to article