Jewish Scene
Haredi draft opponents find 'back up' in banknote
Ynet
Published: 09.07.12, 14:50
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
33 Talkbacks for this article
1. Not because of military might?
NYC Girl   (07.09.12)
Are they serious? Didn't these people learn anything from the Holocaust when all their piety didn't do a damn thing to save 6 million Jews because they had no army to protect them?
2. kool.
heshy ,   Brooklyn NY USA   (07.09.12)
Kool. That is facinating. What we need is that the army should be required to spend time learning in yeshiva and thus gain some Jewish values instead of. Corrupting its soldiers with smoking pot and other such vices.
3. Secular Jews can t deny,that it is ...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (07.09.12)
thanks to the Tora,that the Jewish people,dispersed in the four corners of the world,could cross the many centuries.More than three thousand years.Despite the many mass exterminations. Now Israelis dare to say that our precious Tora is Has Vehalila useless.That the Tora students that keep the tora alive don t contribute? That s a oxymoron. Israelis need NOW Tora more than ever.To unify Jews towards a clear vision,to know what to stand for.To live with clear eyes,love and joy in their heart. And now a hug and a smile to ALL the TBers,Secular and Orthodox Jews ALIKE.
4. #1: every hear of iran??
david ,   new york   (07.09.12)
now that israel has military might it is in just the same precarious situation as unarmed jews were in europe. its the one upstairs who determines whether we are at peace or not, whether we are safe or not. as we see, all those plans did not make us one inch safer
5. Ora , fine to see you back , but you're wrong
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.09.12)
It's antisemitism that obliged our ancestors to stay together . Proof : in countries where there is less , or no , antisemitism , Jews assimilate . Your own brother , a charidi , served in a army , ABROAD !!! Why can't they NOT defend their OWN country ? Why can they work and study tora abroad , but not here ? Tora will NOT unify the Israelis , only when ALL of us will contribute to the country then there will be a possibility of unity .
6. Learning Torah AND serving.
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (07.09.12)
As a secular Jewish person I have no personal use for Torah study. At the same time, all 4 of my children had to study Torah in school - a regular state school, not a religious one. They learned of their roots and the reasons for the need of a State for Jews. They learned that they are a part of the Jewish people and that it is their right and duty to protect their people. They learned the Torah and they learned in real life from our very existence of the need for the IDF. All but one, a physically handicapped person, served with distinction and with pride. Now let the so-called 'religious' do the same.
7. Zalman Shazar and the secular Jews in that era
Moshe   (07.09.12)
still had some Jewishness and Jewish hearts in them. Today's secular Jews are illiterate about Torah or anything Jewish and light-years away from them. Their ancestors are surely turning over in their graves upon seeing what their G-dless anti-Torah descendants look like.
8. True equality
Michael ,   NYC. US   (07.09.12)
Ive several points. First the "ultra Orthodox" that are being derided make up about 7% of those avoiding the draft. I'm not saying they shouldn't be drafted but if they are religious beliefs (whether or not you agree with) MUST BE RESPECTED. Now as to the other 93% dodging the draft most are leftists what about them? The rest are Arabs they should do national service.
9. And everything the politicians say is the
jason white ,   afula, israel   (07.09.12)
truth. We need the I.D.F. and we need to close all anti Zionist institutions and stop giving money to all draft dodgers.
10. It's Hora for Israel, not torah.
Michael ,   California, USA   (07.09.12)
Torah could be responsible for what Jews have become in thousands of years: the least united and numerically successful of all major religious groups. But Jewish culture is doing well, is widely respected by Jews and non-Jews alike. Look in literature, look in science, look in financial services, all over the world -- Jewish culture has a very positive impact. Yes, Israel has the Hora to be proud of. That's what Shazar meant: let's not neglect to dance the Hora.
11. #1 NYC, you told them like it is. Bravo.
Michael ,   California, USA   (07.09.12)
Burying their heads in the sand, at this they are serious. What makes me crack up the most is when they say prayer delivers defense from above to Israel.
12. #7, You are so jealous.
Michael ,   California, USA   (07.09.12)
You wish you were as good looking as those secular chicks, admit it and spit on the ground.
13. Haredi draft opponents
Yoel ,   Ossining, NY   (07.09.12)
It certainly can be good to study Torah, but is it an excuse to not serve in the IDF? Why must the issue be considered as 100% or 0? Can't haredi serve in the army and still study Torah? They have time off from military duty; they can study Torah then. Where does it say that one must study Torah all day every day? Are there any laws stating how much time one should study? Even in biblical times, there were Jewish soldiers who went into battle...or were they all secular?
14. 5 Charles I think we are both right.
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (07.09.12)
15. 5 Thanks Charles, You are not wrong
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (07.09.12)
but without the Tora ,what have Chinese African ,American Jews in common? NOTHING, thus they would not be Am Ehad. Jews were hated because they did not assimilate,because they had a different way of life. Now is the question,what came first,the egg or the chicken?
16. to nomb 6
had enough   (07.09.12)
U are forgetting that Torah kept the Jewish people BEFORE there was a state and will continue keeping the Jewish people together! The early zionist founders wanted a state without religion aka the Torah. But it is The Torah that keeps us going.
17. Plessner whose father is a goy &he got married in a church
Dov   (07.09.12)
Plessner, whose father is a goy and grandfather is a goy and he himself got married in a church is behind the evil decree of drafting Torah learners. Can you expect anything better from such a person?
18. Number 1. military might
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (07.09.12)
The military might of Nazi Germany and Communist Soviet Union have come and gone, while we persecuted Jews are still here. A country the size of israel holds its own because of Divine Providence. The Six Day War was 'giloy haShechina' -- the revelation of Providence. So was the first Gulf War, with 39 Scuds destroying 1,500 Israeli homes but killing only one Jew.
19. Number 7 secular Jews
Danny ,   London England   (07.09.12)
I disagree. Some secular Jews had deep Jewish knowledge -- but the virulence of their secularism was far more extreme than today's secular Israelis who are more neutral. The way Israel tried in those days to secularise Sephardi immigrants would not be tolerated today.
20. Number 17 Plessner
Akiva ,   London England   (07.09.12)
Plessner isn't a one man political coalition. Bibi and many others are involved in the current impasse. Those supporting him were not all married out.
21. Currency Origami
Adam Neira ,   Paris, France   (07.09.12)
In a similar vein if you fold a US $100 Dollar Bill in half and then half again you end up with the spitting image of L.Ron Hubbard. Thus proving that the US Economy is one great sceintology ponzi scheme. Now seriously, the quote "Rich or poor, only children or large families, single or married, we must all carry the burden of Torah study" should mean that yes it is a good thing if many Jews from whatever background study the Tanach regularly. The point is "How many Rabbis and yeshiva students on scholarships should be on the state payroll and how many yeshiva students should be exempt from national service ?" I have explained my views and a detailed plan elsewhere and won't repeat them here. Suffice to say... "Plesner, Ya’alon hope to draft universal conscription law in two days" As that famous saying goes from a certain shoe company... "Just do it !"
22. Dov , 17 . Can you give your sources please ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.10.12)
He is NOT alone . The Knesseth [ or the PM ] has set up this comission , composed by members of all parties . Plessner is the head of this comission , so that's why it's the Plessner comission .
23. Ora , 15
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.10.12)
Jews have in common that they are ....Jews who belong to one people , with a common History going back thousands of years . What have , let's say , French Catholics , protestants , seculars and so on in common ? they are all French , belong to the French people . Worldwide people of a certain origin always stayed together in some ways . When they were accepted in their new environnement , they integrated and assimilated . The same for Jews , exept that they , most of the time , were rejected . So they had only one option : stay together . Jews were NOT allowed to assimilate , Ora , even if they wanted to do it . Heinrich Heine , when he got his "baptism certificate" said : this is my passport to enter the cultural world . Before he was baptised , he was NOT accepted at all . Karl Landsteiner , the discoverer of the blood groupos , had to be baptised in order to continue his research at his university . Then he , the same person as before ! , was accepted .
24. 23 Charles, With your logic...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (07.10.12)
French Jews are French,belong to the french people. In all times [except hitler times] jews who wanted to be assimilated had no problem to be baptised.
25. Ora , French Jews considered themselve
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.11.12)
as French nationals , but they were not always , and by everyone , accepted as TRUE French people . I know a French Jewess who converted , just after the war . In the beginning she was not totally accepted , was "different" . To convert in order to assimilate is not a solution . I was accepted in the clubs i was a member of , "you're a different Jew" some said .
26. 25 Charles,did you feel being like...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (07.11.12)
one of them in the clubs you were accepted? In the non-jewish school i was,we were three Jewish girls,one of them was from the Shomer Hazair and spoke perfectly the country s tongue We did not feel like being part of the rest of the class.... although we were in good terms with everybody,and felt no antisemitism.
27. Ora , 26 . We all had the same interests
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.11.12)
And with some i felt being like them . I speak perfectly the country's and local tongue . And even today , when i visit there , i'm received with open arms . I only once felt antisemitism , when the arabs shut off the oil supply in 1973 .a guy began shouting at me . I hadn't to react as a non Jew did it , and told him that the arabs were guilty , not the Jews .
28. 27 Charles That confirms...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (07.11.12)
what my husband Z"L always said: In politics the only friendships are interests.
29. Ora , it was NOT related to politics
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.12.12)
we were interested in the same subjects . Again your "comparisons" without any sense .
30. 29 Charles Again your " remarks"...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (07.12.12)
without any sensibility.
Next talkbacks
Back to article