IDF can’t handle haredim
Merav Betito
Published: 10.07.12, 00:46
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1. So what you are saying is that their blood is holier than us
Joe ,   Israel   (07.10.12)
Good to know. How about instead of the army and a nation of 6 million people conforming to the minority, that the Hareidim for three years will stop crying and moaning and actually be willing to place their lives on the line.
2. taliban army
yaacovic   (07.10.12)
it is not enough to stipulate haredi enlistment in the IDF. at the rate they are multiplying, they will soon enough become the jewish demographic majority in the population at enlistment age. if there are plans to accommodate them by isolating them in the IDF and giving them a strictly haredi environment, what will happen when they quickly reach the demographic majority in the army? will they also accommodate the seculars and women in particular, or will we have created a taliban army? think about it. haredi soldiers must be exposed to seculars and women immediately and must learn to live with them respectfully.
3. No problem, haredim who are found unsuitable get menial jobs
Dr. L. Brnd ,   San Diego, USA   (07.10.12)
The writer is completely mistaken. In every army, especially in wartime, there are plenty of non-combat menial jobs for the screw-ups, the weaklings, those of uncertain loyalty and the trouble-makers. Latrine duty, peeling potatoes, mopping floors, digging ditches, emptying garbage, building fences, scrubbing vehicles, doing laundry, painting ships, scraping rust off metal, etc. This will free up honest soldiers willing to take IDF service seriously to do the actual defense of the country. Perhaps, to be fair, cranky and unwilling conscripts found suitable only for non-combat low level work like this should serve 5 years unstead of only 3. Safety at the expense of others should come at a price.
4. If and when they get comfortable in the army...
Nick Sporek ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (07.10.12)
Israel will surely become a theocracy. So be careful what you wish for.
5. yes, but
freddie ,   USA   (07.10.12)
sure. tough. so let'.s not le tthem serve and make others do it for them! I was a misfit, no good etc but somehow I managed to serve in US army...and best of all: it was good for me!
6. We can handle problems, we are not American!
Baruch ,   Israel   (07.10.12)
7. Tell it to the marines
Sidney ,   USA   (07.10.12)
Somehow this article offends me because of the assumption that the IDF must bend to the will of a minority. Israel is in an existential struggle and survival comes first. These haredim owe it to their country to participate in that struggle. Choose life is a basic Jewish dictum. As soon as they enter the military they should be placed under the authority of female non-coms and officers for training. During World War II no Jewish soldier ever got kosher food or the sabbath off and I never heard one complain. The IDF must choose being politics and militaryeffectiveness and take the heat from haredi politicians.
8. Dear Merav Betito:
Israeli 2   (07.10.12)
Your closing sentence left me spinning with a big question mark. Why would huge numbers of haredi soldiers overwhelm the army and leave most of our aims unfulfilled? a) They must interact with women soldiers if and when necessary. This must be made very clearly at the onset. Those refusing to comply must either be removed from that unit or be placed in a non combative role. b) Haridic soldiers refusing to communicate with female counterparts have the right to do so when they are placed in a separate all male or haridic unit whether combative or otherwise. c) Army leadership and directives must be very firm, rigid and yet compromising. Remember that if the IDF is to function as a family with love, respect, support and honor for each other. Do not forget...Arabs will be included as well and everyone should join at the age of 18. All those refusing may get a one way ticket with the YORED stamp on his forehead.
9. I thought IDF aim is to win wars; not promote feminism!
Meir ,   Jerusalem   (07.10.12)
I had thought that the goal of an army (any army) let alone the IDF was to win battles and wars and NOT to promote feminism! The dati leumi public are playing a leading role in the IDF (beyond their proportions) because they truly believe they are doing sacred duty by fighting for the Jewish Nation and the Land of Israel. Grow up and let the IDF win!
10. What a crock
Mahlon Drumgoole ,   Newark NJ USA   (07.10.12)
Please, more excuses to excuse haredim from military service. Theere is no reason that physically fit haredim men cannot fulfil their military obligation other than their resentment at losing their exemption from service. For those who refuse to follow military rules (of course religious sensibilities must be honored) should be court-martialed. Israelhas a tremendous need for all fit men and women to be trained for combat considering the existential threats it faces.
11. It's Unfortunate........
Bill Foonman ,   Jacksonville, USA   (07.10.12)
However, history will show that the Haredim will be as good at defending Israel as they are at doing just about everything else - except sitting on their butts all day doing nothing.
12. Problem is easily solved
Problem is easily so ,   Shahreru banot !!!!   (07.10.12)
Shahreru banot !!!!
13. You know what, you're right
Joe ,   Israel   (07.10.12)
You say that the Hareidim can't function in an environment with women and without strict religious law, then fine. All the hilonim and dati-leumi will do sherut leumi and be jobnicks and we'll let all the hareidim be combat only with their own units and actually put their lives on the line for a change while the rest of us take a good and well deserved break from dying for the parasites.
14. just expand nahal haredi
sam   (07.10.12)
the solution to the problem of integrating haredi conscripts is rather simple . All that is required it so to expand the nahal unit to bigger level , and place all haredi in haredi only sectors . If need be , create haredi only divisions
15. #13
abttrax ,   tzefas   (07.10.12)
To #13 - I understand that you are writing with contempt - however: I think your idea is simply wonderful. I am a chareidi with many sons, and they will be thrilled to serve and even potentially lay their life on the line in a situation where the entire combat units are chareidi. I figure with 10 years the majority of the top ranking officers will be chariedi as well. Within 20 years we will completely control the environment in the army! Sounds like a plan.
16. Ridiculous Article, Ridiculous Premise!
Yakov ,   Tel Aviv   (07.10.12)
Dear Merav, You must be under the assumption, that we are stupid people. Or, that the Haredim, are so out of touch with reality, that they are useless in a "real world" situation. You arguments and assertions are flimsy and amateurish. Religious or not, we are Israeli's. We live in a wonderful country, with stability, healthcare, safety and and decent education for our children. This accomplishment, is maintained and protected, by those who serve in our defense forces. Short of them, today would not exist. Therefore, the secular and non-secular society enjoys these freedoms, alike. Therefore both are responsible to support them. Find me an argument that refutes this. And if so, one that is salient and defensible.
17. idf
chips ,   madrid   (07.10.12)
Oy oy oy, what a bad language in these comments, not one builds up something good. Not one is positive about another person. Shamefull.
18. You got it!
Zalman ,   Holy Yerushalayim   (07.10.12)
We will all go to the army, and take over the country and establish a Halachic State ready for Mashiach and stone those who desecrate the Shabbos.
19. 17 chips Nor are you.
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (07.10.12)
Positive thinking is the way of life of successful people.
20. So pray tell, what IS the problem?
R Narz ,   Toronto   (07.10.12)
Now let's think of left wing secular draftdodgers, each of whom is very westernized and very individualistic. It becomes hard to get them to conform to the army way of life. But Haredim? Come on, they are already accustomed to living in uniform and to a degree of mind numbing conformity usually only seen in sci fi futuristic societies. As of the point Haredim are placed in their own segregated units, you then have at your disposal a lot of robots, any army's dream. Think I'm only making this up? Not on your life, compare the military history of one hand WW1 and WW2 and on the other had Vietnam. Go read a little bit about the US problems trying to function in the Vietnam era.
21. #9, #14
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (07.10.12)
You guys are right. The problem is the Leftists don't care about the IDF, they just look for a reason to attack the Haredim. Did you hear them complain about draft-dodgers like Olmert, Lapid or Leef? The fact is that the IDF is bloated with too many soldiers, and can't afford drafting everyone. If people cared about winning wars, they would demand that the IDF be reorganized to be a smaller, better trained, better equipped force. In a reorganized IDF, suitable people (including Haredi) will serve because they know they aren't being drafted for some Leftist "social engineering" project but because they are needed.
22. My wishes will come true.
Gill ,   Montreal   (07.10.12)
You see the minute they start enlisting them. They will slowly start to preach around them. Before you know it take over the army. Sometimes it's better to see long term before doing.
23. #8 what you are saying they must become secular
rebecca ,   Modiin   (07.10.12)
Your post is saying exactly what the Haradim are frightened of. You are expecting them to go into the army and become secular to fit in with the army. It's your way or death to Haradim???
24. The Haradim refuse to serve...no problem they will be
Al   (07.10.12)
relegated to the lowly jobs of society always mired in poverty and neglect. They will be the perpetual underclass of Israeli Jewish society and quite frankly no one I repeat no one will give a good god damn and so it should be. They will always be viewed as the N......s of Jewish society.
25. How about this Idea...
yehuda ,   Jerusalem   (07.10.12)
In regards to this whole topic of Chareidim and National Service, the government should create a program where students do their national service through teaching others about Judaism and spreading Torah. This may not be suitable for all Chareidim but why not create a program that allows Yeshiva students to spread Torah to secular people and that counts as service????
26.  Bingorion wanted to put the first step
but now, israil want to put steps up not down
27. forming religious regiments
Cameron ,   USA   (07.10.12)
Sounds ominous as Hell. Betito is right to frown mightily at this in his diatribe. Just as they extend ever greater weight & leverage in the IDF, so too will your homegrown, bearded fundamentalists begin to steadily transform the very nature and direction of Israel. A real warning bell for the secular oriented this.........beware!
28. Heheh, make them work and pay taxes first ,...
split ,   US   (07.10.12)
There's a reason and a good one why no one misses them in Europe or anywhere else ,...
29. I second #14....
Mitchell Cohen ,   Gush Etzion, Israel   (07.10.12)
Sam (#14) made the most intelligent talk back in response to this article. I have nothing to add....
30. To Rebecca @ #23:
Israeli 2   (07.10.12)
You are jumping to false and incorrect conclusions regarding my post #8. They should not be frightened of the females of the Israeli military but of the enemy who chas veshalom will have their footage on our soil. In the military we are all family. Also, I never mentioned for Haredim to become secular. I said that they should be placed in different units where they have no need to communicate with females and therefore the upper echelons should be compromising to Haridim. Your post make me wonder whether you think it is better for the Haredim to serve with male homosexuals than with "females".
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