not all the people eventually involved . I hate the silence of the charidi leaders who are not condemning those acts PUBLICLY . Does this silence mean that they agree ? qui se tait , approuve . We have seen only ONE , made by the director [ or president ] of Zaka . And it's not enough to do it in charidi papers , we all want to see it . You know , during WWII the then pope maybe condemned the nazi atrocities , in private discussions , but NEVER publicly . And that's something many , i included , reproach him . Regarding "popularity" , i , and i think you too , think to know who recommended me . If it were 20 people , yes then it's popularity . But it's certainly for the GOOD reason .

in the protection of our country ? Why should ALL the others have to do it ? Why should the others have to wait until after their IDF service to begin their studies , while the charidim "study" unproductive and unnecessarry matters during years ? Why can charidim , abroad , work and study ? Why can a charidi , as Ora told us , serve a army ABROAD , but not here ? Can you give a serious answer ?

so why should haredim be exempted? Those who study medicine are saving lives day after day, but they enlisted and served before learning medicine, and continue to serve (in miluim) once they have their degree and profession. Many other people -- dati as well as hiloni -- perform amazing acts of charity, yet they are not exempt. Performing good deeds does not exempt anyone else from civic duty.

Posters seem to overlook two points. 1. Does the IDF really need every 18 year old Haredi, Arab, Secular, male and female? 2. The status quo agreement between David Ben-Gurion and Agudat Yisrael cannot be unilaterally varied, and that agreement states that yeshivah students will not be drafted. Any change has to be agreed by both sides. At the height of the Vietnam War all American divinity students received a 4D exemption from the draft. Many of us later served a military chaplains.

To study Torah AND serve in the Army of Israel equals 2 Mitzvot instead of just 1. Moreover, nowhere in the Torah does it imply that prayer will suffice without deed. The Sea did not open for us to escape the Egyptian army until Nachshon (ben Aminadav) bravely stepped into the waters.

The study of Torah is noble and good. But if paid for, or used as a priviledge over someone else, it loses its merit. And as we see, can lead to destruction(division).

One man says to his neighbor, " My son does not need to go and fight; he will stay home and study. Send your son; he does not (publicly) study." This inferred priviledge or discrimination: setting one father's opinion, and one son's life over another, is against reason and justice, and therefore contradicts our Torah.

express yourself here doesn t infuriate me,and i even can understand. How would you feel ,if i said atheists are dictators,and since power corrupts,they eventually become mass murderers Here some nice atheists: hitler staline lenine fidel castro che guevara kim yong il and so on. I would never write that ,not to hurt the fine atheists [included you] I would rather say that many atheists having a good heart ,believe that if there was a G-D ,he would have intervened in the huge humane catastrophes. What the writer states ,talks more of him than of the truth. It says, if he wants just to spit his hate or if he want to achieve something positive with his comments .I think,Charles,that you ,with your fine nature,ought to be in the last category.

Many Haredis already participate,and others will follow if the IDF meets their Jewish needs.Don t forget,Israel is supposed to be a Jewish land. Tora is unnecessary? "A thorough knowledge of the bible is worth more than a college education" Nobody less than Theodore Roosevelt said that. Not all Haredim serve abroad.

as French nationals , but they were not always , and by everyone , accepted as TRUE French people . I know a French Jewess who converted , just after the war . In the beginning she was not totally accepted , was "different" . To convert in order to assimilate is not a solution . I was accepted in the clubs i was a member of , "you're a different Jew" some said .

Dictators acted in this way by believing in THEIR Religion , their "holy books" . You wrote : ....believe that if there was a G-d he would have ......Sorry if i hurt you , but NO intervention , means no god . You wrote ....if the IDF meets their Jewish needs . Why should they set preconditions ? are they better as my grandchildren ? Or better as my two Family members who are buried at "Har Herzl" ? If every sect will have special conditions to enlist there will be NO IDF , nor State of Israel . Regarding what Roosevelt said , hot er gezogt ! All depends when , why and to whom he said it . Has bible study given us penicilline , anti polyo vaccinations , made us live longer and in better conditions , and so on ? No , it was college education that made the world going forwards . And what has bible study given us ? Some laws ? do you think that most people need those "bible laws" to behave correctly ? Maybe the believing ones do ! [ grrrrr ] Of course , not all the charidim abroad served , but if one can do it there , why should all of them not do it here ? And abroad , most of the charidim worked to feed their family , and studied by night . I think that you are wrong by putting Castro and Guevara [ some say he had Jewish roots ] in the same line as the others .

people is a proof of G-Ds existence. That He did not intervene in calamities is not a proof but a belief, of G-Ds "has vehalila" non-existence . Anyway,it turns out, that we all descend from grand-fathers. And you know what?Orthodox people [neither you] do need to look in the mirror to be sure ,they do not descend from an ape.

Pascal , a catholic , lived in a period when the "chuch" [ also a religion ] persecuted Galileo for telling that the earth was not the center of the world . And is it a proof that he said it ? Look at this period , still full of ignorance . Give me a serious PROOF . I don't want to hurt you , i did it already more than enough . So , if believing makes you happy , enjoy it , but don't try to impose it on others .

it would not be anymore a belief. I don t try to impose it on you.We are just debating.But if you don t want that,we can talk about weather , economy previsions or something like that.

It might come as surprise to you but your DNA is over 99% the same as apes, yes we have all their DNA. We even have the DNA of a simple worm in ours so we are not removed from the rest of the animals on this planet. it has taken a long time but finally we can prove Darwin was/is right

So it's a belief in something you can't prove anything about . Before believing in something , i prefer to see PROOFS . And if you had a proof , a serious one , that G-D exist , would you change your mind ? wouldn't you follow the Tora laws anymore ?

If the Chareidi Boys are to be drafted into the IDF.then the IDF must show itself as a moral Army and not kick Jews out of their homes like they did in Gush Katif and is still going on. Also every soldier should spend a year in Yeshiva so they get to know and appreciate their religion and the charadim which most secular israelis are completely ignorant about as can be seen from most these talk backs.

It was a moral army that removed the people who defied a government order, no one died, and how they abused and mistreated the soldiers, you seem to forget very quickly. The IDF is to protect the country not to make people have to believe in religion, if you want to preach that is your business and anyway what right do you have to even write a comment here when you are in London?

my mind if there was a serious proof that G-D exists? By chance,were you asking this question to yourself and you adressed it to me.?

it really upsets me to see so many people making absolutely horrible statements about people they really don't understand! And from these "commenters-condemners", i wonder how many have actually served in the IDF combat units themselves! often, i see comments coming from out of Israel. I'm sure they haven't served. keep in mind that those of us living in Israel, including the Hareidim, are subject to on-going terrorism and threats of anniliation so i think we're doing our part...even if some guys want to sit and learn in a Yeshiva! By the way, Nachal Hareidi, the Hareidi division of the IDF is PACKED TO THE BRIM! THey also have commandos doing really dangerous missions. keep that in mind. As far as YNET, THEY ARE GUILTY OF INCITING HATRED, PINNING NON RELIGIOUS AGAINST RELIGIOUS with annoying provoking articles! BUT, maybe all of us out there can raise our voices in protest and learn to LOVE OUR FELLOW JEW AS OURSELVES! Now is the time for unity! Let's keep our nasty opinions to ourselves!

it would not be anymore a belief [ your 46 ] Even if there was a proof i can't believe in a god who a] has no power b] or , don't want to intervene c] or , worse : wanted the Shoa to happen . And maybe all the three together . Do you think that a SANE person can believe in such a god ? Regarding our DNA , make some research , you will see . Do you believe that god created man , thic tchac ? Do you believe that the earth exist only since 5700 + years ?

How do the Charidi demonstrators take time off to demonstrate or throw stones or block traffic and cannot take time off to be soldiers? From this article, I learn that at a moments notice, a student can go on a call for Hatzalh, but has he learned how to save a life, that takes time and practice. If he studies all the time, when does he learn to save lives?

atheists in the world,that tried to proof the falshood of the Tora. NOBODY ever succeeded. I have a TOTAL confidence in what is written in the TORA given by G-D who created the earth.HE knows best. If a scientist wants to discover something new,he should study the Tora and look for something that seems impossible in his eyes ,and try to prove the veracity of that.He might win so the Nobel price. Charles,G-D is a Superbeing .Don t compare Him with what a humane is able to do. I understand perfectly ,Charles,that you can t believe in G-D. I could easily make you believe in Him.But i won t do that ,since you don t want it, and i intend to respect your will.

The neanderthal women are aged between 38 to 44000 years . Todays Humans share some DNA with them . And they are an intermediate stadium of men's evolution . How can you believe in those tales that a god created the earth and men tchic tchac ? Even today men are evoluating , we become taller as our ancestors . You said that you can convince me . You have a very short memory , that's already known to me . Not so long ago you sai that a SANE person CAN'T be brainwashed into religion , and you were talking about ME . Your : i will not do it , because you don't want it , is only an EXCUSE to avoid agreeing that your "belief" isn't something that a SANE person can accept . But yes a "believer" who don't even knows what PC means shows the level of believers . I had another TB , not published , with harsher words about your "belief" .

The neanderthal women are aged between 38 to 44000 years . Todays Humans share some DNA with them . And they are an intermediate stadium of men's evolution . How can you believe in those tales that a god created the earth and men tchic tchac ? Even today men are evoluating , we become taller as our ancestors . You said that you can convince me . You have a very short memory , that's already known to me . Not so long ago you sai that a SANE person CAN'T be brainwashed into religion , and you were talking about ME . Your : i will not do it , because you don't want it , is only an EXCUSE to avoid agreeing that your "belief" isn't something that a SANE person can accept . But yes a "believer" who don't even knows what PC means shows the level of believers . I had another TB , not published , with harsher words about your "belief" . TRY # 2 !!!