Opinion
The de-legitimization war
Manfred Gerstenfeld
Published: 11.07.12, 17:58
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31 Talkbacks for this article
1. Draft treasons laws to included delegitimization.
Chaim ,   Israel   (07.11.12)
This article is spot on. Israeli treason laws should be drafted so as to include delegitimization. We must no longer tolerate the disgusting spectacle of professors, media personalities etc. delegitimizing Israel while benefiting from Israeli citizenship.
2. Dont forget Foreign Goverment Funding
Joe Sombrero ,   USA   (07.11.12)
Don't forget Foreign Government Funding
3. Make each govt liable for slander !
Benny ,   Iran   (07.11.12)
Letters, circulars should be sent to all govt and media as soon as slander vs Israel is printed or uttered. In fact, EU,etc should receive official Israeli govt letters that it considers slander, hate as punishable acts and make each entity force its citizenry to comply or law-suits can be generated.
4. It's your conduct. stupid ,...
split ,   US   (07.11.12)
5. Split Its your rejection of peace and borders stupid
PETER SM ,   MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA   (07.11.12)
If Pals only wanted their own state the conflict would have been over before it started and many times since. No you can't move millions of Arabs into somebody else's state, thus occupying both states." 2 Palestines side by side" . Abbas evading negotions is a reflection of the will of the majority of his people, he can't deliver not his own people,let alone Hamas Why is there no " intellectual elite" demand to liberate the vast majority of the original mandate of Palestine in Jordan for Pal rule?The real issue is not "occupation " it is Israel any Israel,
6. final;ly you caught on!! i have been saying this for years
RALPH   (07.11.12)
7. delegitimization
stan ,   usa   (07.11.12)
No one does a better job at de-legitimizing israel than the israeli government and its citizens. Right wingers are stupid
8. Jews should stop siding with Muslims in Europe
me   (07.11.12)
the Muslims have made themselves totally unwelcome in Europe by not assimilating, not intermarrying, having their own schools, living in seperate communities , thinking themselves superior to everyone else, and demanding exemptions from laws which everyone else has to follow. So what happens when Germany bans circumcision? Jewish organizations make a point of standing with their Muslim ''brothers'' to fight back. The Muslims will make themselves so unpopular in the long run that Christians, atheists, Hindus, and Sikhs will join in opposing them violently. Its happening already in the UK. Eventually they will be so unpopular that their opponents will see Israel's problem as their problem. So giving Jewish support for Muslim religious ''rights'' in Europe is totally stupid. It makes Jews look like part of the problem.
9. Re- Response
Marty ,   Toronto, Canada   (07.11.12)
The closest the mainstream audience came to understanding what the Palestinians were up to was the CBS 60 Minutes piece called "Pallywood" (still available for viewing on Youtube). The western media send their accredited journalists to Israel to cover the Middle East from the comfort and security Israel provides, while bashing Israel in their reporting. Simple solution - have someone monitor western media for fallacies and advise the worst offenders that they are no longer welcome in Israel. Tell them if they want to report about Gaza, Syria and the West Bank they must do their reporting and live in those locations.
10. Delegitimazion war
Floriane ,   Israel   (07.11.12)
Thé first ennemies are The Jews themselves. If these people like the ones who wrote Graffitis At the Yad Vashem got their head on straight, if the Jews believe on Unity among ourselves and not wars and fights. Then the Jews want to assimilate and mimick the Goyim. Then Israel cooperates with many ennemies countries to bring in money. We have so many resources and creativity in this country that we could be self sufficient and not depend on anyone. OK living in autarcy is not the best, but what difference does it make? We bend backwards to the world and they plainly HATE us. We basically are looking the other way regarding the Migrants. Why because the world condemns us And Last but not least the Jews hire them because they are cheap labour and will continue to do so, again no unity, no solidarity among us, just money immoral acts if this country does not open its eyes, I hate to imagine what could happen to us: are we going to still have Israel as a Jewish state!
11. terror supporters like Herbert Pundik,Abu Ron Pun
ab   (07.11.12)
dak(Peres Peace Center) who spends winter in Israel(in summer he is in Denmark,cooler)should be combatted .Not a glass of water should be given to the one who wrote in the Danish daily "Politiken" "Bomber who brought the Peace"-on the pal shit who murdered 21 Israeli teenage girl in front of Dolphinarium. Pundik lives his otium,well supplied with monies from Danish Israel-haters in Israel and still coontributes "It's Israel's fault" to Danish papers.
12. Oy!
John   (07.11.12)
Quote: "Israel should designate de-legitimization as war". First, so-called "de-legitimization" poses a very small problem to Israel. Don't believe it? Look at what influence BDS for example has been able to accomplish - not that much. Moreover, this is the problem with people using sloppy language and a poor understanding of history. War is an act of violence, whether bilateral or multilateral but violence nonetheless. You cannot designate 'de-legitimization' "as war". It's another "war on terror" or "war on drugs" in the making. We don't need new buzzwords that are useless.
13. Try getting the BBC for example to admit bias?
Tim ,   Brighton   (07.11.12)
You can send letters of complaint...as I have but more often than not...however the gross violation of the truth..the reaction is SMUG stony silence... What the Jewish Community in the UK need to do apart from challenging the media etc is to also pursue some of the most flagrant cases rigorously through the courts And once just one or two cases have been successfully won through the courts it would send out a very strong message - Ensure that when you speak publiclu you CHECK YOUR FACTS ARE RIGHT I have never complained about criticism of Israel where it is FAIR and ACCURATE. But when we see and hear gross distortions, lies and incitement..we can no longer put our heads in the sand and hope it goes away There are many retired lawyers and barristers Jewish AND non Jewish who can be mobilised Yes we do need an agency that closely monitors these cases but we also need the legal profession to rigorously follow the response through
14. The way to win the war is to de-legitimize false claims.
Jake ,   USA   (07.11.12)
The Levy Report was a great start.
15. Delegitimization
graczek ,   Maryland, USA   (07.12.12)
How can Israel be delegitimized when it was never legitimate in the first place? Could someone please resolve this paradox?
16. not worth it
i.zwick ,   nyc   (07.12.12)
I have enormous respect for Dr. Gerstenfeld. He is a great scholar and prolific writer who promotes the interests of the Jewish people. Yet I think that this plan would be a waste of money, effort, and resources. Dr. Gerstenfeld knows too well that much of the world hates the Jews, so it is unlikely that this plan would have much of an effect. We're all frustrated by this issue, but this plan will not solve it, just waste our precious resources.
17. delegitimization article
Dan ,   USA   (07.12.12)
Delegitimization has become fashionable in certain circles, who realize that there are no consequences to engaging in it. Israel must take immediate steps to attach serious consequences to it, including both legal consequences, such as large judgments, and otherwise.
18. fighting delegitimization
Neal ,   Minneapolis USA   (07.12.12)
The first thing Israeli leaders (of all political persuasions) need to do is admit that there is a problem requiring help from outsiders. America is Israel's biggest supporter, the audience it most needs to reach, and American communications specialists are most likely to know how to reach it. Bibi's actions and reputation may get bad press in the United States, but his ability to present Israel's case in ways that Americans understand is unsurpassed -- and not only because his U.S. English is flawless. It's because he understands what message he wants to give and how to deliver it. Jews are among America's most-successful pubic-relations experts. Many would be glad to help Israel deal more successfully with its image problems. But my impression is that Israelis don't want anyone else's help; they believe they have all the answers. The result has been public-relations disaster upon disaster. One of the biggest single problems is failing to understand that one must get one's story out fast -- in the same news cycle as the event; let the Arabs beat us, and their story will frame the news and the arguments. Many of us would be happy to help Israel, if only Israelis would let us.
19. Delegitimization
Howard Immanuelson ,   US   (07.12.12)
The answer is simple -- people that don't see Israel as legitimate are brain dead, wretches filled with hatred, or both.
20. Potentially disturbing piece by Mr Gerstenfeld..
Passerby ,   NL   (07.12.12)
Potentially because it is written too ambiguously to really pin him down on things (really he should have been more specific - and perhaps risk seriously being questioned whether or not some proposals are even sane.. or at least give the reader a chance to judge if that 'high placed Israeli offcial' or Mr Gerstenfeld even had a point here). What disturbs me here is that "war" is used in the true sense, as that "methodically" [..] "as military and cyber wars are fought" is deemed here as a proportionate and proper response to “perpetrators of de-legitimization and anti-Semitism” (especially as he mostly seems to point to individuals as targets - i'll come back on that..). Especially for anti-semitism in many countries there are legal methods in place, certainly against organisations and also in a public debate de-legitimization is often effectively countered when slanderous accusations are made (though maybe not as effectively against individuals – which could explain some of his arguments over considerable extra costs, being methodical and indeed justifying these cost in that most individuals would not have time or money defending themselves effectively against a formidable force as the Mossad). I draw the conclusion he points at individuals and people expressing themselves over the internet, because these are the only things left besides the ones he argues but are currently already practice, for instance by watch dogs already funded in one way or another, the Israeli government obviously has also already mechanisms in place given that critical academics or columnists are sometimes refused entry and also already little goes unnoticed in organisations like the UN. Nothing of that would really require much extra "time and money, most of which has to come from the Israeli government". So really, what is he proposing here ?? Hacking into people computers, causing them harm in an aggressive way by sabotage and loss of data ? (is that the meaning of the phrase about the way cyber wars are fought ?). Can only an organisation not openly accountable “be the logical candidate” to do such a thing (at perhaps the initiative of an organisation like Mr Gerstenfelds JCPA "who is already in the fight on the Israeli side"), with money that can obviously not be privately donated for such a cause (for private organisations could really be held accountable for such practices..). If that would be Mr Gerstenfelds intention, I would be very glad that some sanity prevails within presumably the Mossad (and it tells a bit about the authors maturity being vindictive over being told off and still trying to get his way via intimidation in the opening of the article and rallying for support here - probably being less specific than before).
21. Graczek, No 15
Alf Red ,   Londonistan   (07.12.12)
Graczek, your idiotic posts invariably make me laugh. You should work as a clown in Barnum, Maryland. You see, to resolve paradoxes one needs brains.
22. iam sorry
(07.12.12)
first iam against the explosions and killing citizens in any gathering place but i have observation ,,, suppose a man was walking in a way safe but there were some words against him i think he can ignor these words ,suddenly he had a hit on his head he could absorb it but he would be conciose or fear in completing his way .... so when the palastinians say we failed in the system of mass murdering they are lying more than they are ignorant
23. delegitimization is a tort against the property value of....
Bluegrass Picker ,   Afula   (07.12.12)
...every single Israeli. Courts everywhere have remedies for tortious acts, including "defamation of title". Maybe a few multi-million-dollar judgements will change the bravery of these "artistes". And remember: judgements can include awards for attorney fees.
24. #20
Joe Sombrero ,   USA   (07.12.12)
Sometimes those types of methods are the only way. I would support even stronger methods that are being mentioned.
25. The Next Step
Aryeh ,   Brooklyn, USA   (07.12.12)
Many countries provide remedies for slander. These remedies come in various means, including recovering expenses, punitive damages, and may cause the guilty parties to be incarcerated. They may also include mandatory publishing of rebuttals. One of the next steps should be to make it very unpleasant to malign the Jews/Jewish State.
26. #20 Joe Sombrero
Passerby ,   NL   (07.12.12)
"Sometimes those types of methods are the only way. I would support even stronger methods that are being mentioned." Basically you would agree with the Mossad waging "war" on individuals, who happen to have different religious, political or even academic opinions (it seems here only truth-by-social-consensus is 'good enough' - even rationality or adherence to principles of international law to which the overwhelming majority in the world can adhere, regardless of political or religious beliefs seem to be outcast according to Mr Gerstenfeld..). Such intolerance and use of force towards people that simple differ from ones own opinion or consensus within the own group are a core element of fascist states in both the present and the past. I don't really like to use these big words as 'fascist', but these tendencies - only in thought now i hope - start inching pretty close to the real thing.
27. #21 we know one thing
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (07.12.12)
Maryland is not missing it's village idiot.
28. This is an excellent article!
Reuven   (07.12.12)
There are already some effective groups, fighting the battle, such as Stand With Us and the David Project that Israel needs to further support. Israel would do well to close down Haaretz, for treason. Amira Hass, Gideon Levi, et al. do Israel much damage. Foregn journalists often use Haaretz articles as the basis for their own anti-Israel diatribes. Anti-Israel Christians are often unaware of the intense Arab persecutions of Christians. They must be constantly made aware of this. There must also be heavy focus on academiia (domestic & foreign), as well as university and high school students. Pro-Israeli journalists, such as Charles Krauthammer and George Will should very frequently be provided with data for their articles.
29. Is the man paid well enough for his PR work
Stan ,   Israel   (07.12.12)
I am glad to see that Manfred makes an effort to earn his salary.
30. People who write op-eds here don't get paid.
Jessica Silvers ,   Tel Aviv   (07.12.12)
So stop accusing Mr. Gerstenfeld of writing just for the money. He, like everyone else who freelances on op-eds for ynet does it for free.
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