Goodbye, occupation myth
Hagai Segal
Published: 13.07.12, 10:48
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1. The Myth Still Won't Stop Spreading
emanon ,   USA   (07.13.12)
This will not stop the lies spread by the arab world and other antisemitic groups aligned with them. They will continue to practice the method the nazis made famous: say something often enough and loud enough and enough people will come to accept a lie as being the truth.
2. Bibi's English will convince the "gentiles"?
berlonski ,   berlin   (07.13.12)
Does anyone have a pill against this advanced stage of self-delusion and infantility? Who cares about the Levy Committee beyond some politicians in Israel?
3. In Your Dreams
World Citizen ,   the world   (07.13.12)
Just because some bogus group of Israeli "judges" say it is not an occupation doesn't mean the rest of the civilised world believes it.
4. If There Is No Occupation, Then Why
Doug ,   Rochester, USA   (07.13.12)
are the Palestinians from W. Bank and Gaza not allowed to vote, given Israeli healthcare and education, cross Apartheid walls, use Apartheid roads, given equal access to the Apartheid water distribution system? Why are they forced to stop and wait at thousands of Apartheid checkpoints? Why are they not allowed to move to anywhere they want to within Israel? I think many and perhaps most Palestinians would accept a one-state solution, as long as they were given equal rights. But they will never accept an Apartheid one-state solution.
5. And we have been saying.........
Arlene ,   Israel   (07.13.12)
so would they all please go back to Jordan because there is NO Palestine...it reverted back to its proper name in 1948, that is ISRAEL!!!!
6. Levy's report.
Eugene ,   Israel   (07.13.12)
The current government ordered a report that'll conclude that there's no occupation and it got what it "paid" for, to claim that it has some objective judicial value is ridiculous. As Segal most probably remembers the 47 partition plan, which gave birth to the state of Israel, designates borders for the Arab-Palestinian state, and the most important thing is that the Yishuv completely accepted it, hardly a "mad idea". To seek various ancient conferences that promise us more land than some others conference is plain silly, everyone in the world understand that it is the UN that decided after all.
7. As Israel watches
Paul ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (07.13.12)
the growing "Global Government" forming, to confront the Zionist (Jewish) outcasts. It has become abundantly clear that no Global or International Government which includes Muslims and Socialists includes Jewish Rights. Even Human Rights do not apply to Jews, as we see when Israel retaliates for bombings and threats. Israel will remain the only country in the world that still believes in Nationalism and Historical right. Jews must, for every reason imaginable annex it's ancient homeland.
8. Nice try, but...
shlomo ,   TA   (07.13.12)
nice try... but its funny how the author disregards the legal conclusions of almost all of the other legal experts... and what are the authors plans with the majority of people living there? Israeli ID? Voting rights? one-state solution with Palestinian majority?
9. # 6, you couldn't say it in a better way ...
FO ,   Belgium   (07.13.12)
"Everyone in the world understand that it is the UN that decided after all". Indeed the UN voted Article 80 of its Charter to affirm the League's Mandate of 1922 that gave the Jews the irrevocable right to settle in the area between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, including the Golan Heights. The UN proposed an non-binding partition in1947, that was rejected by all Arab countries, so it went off the table. UNSC voted the famous "withdrawal from occupied territories" Resolution 242, based on the League's "Mandate for Palestine" as explained to the members of UNSC by its author Prof .Eugene Rostow..
10. The Bible is our DEED
Nachman   (07.13.12)
Jerusalem Chevron Shchem and the entire West Bank and East Bank belong to the Jews. We don't need Anti semitic experts to tell us what belongs to us. Go back 2 - 3 thousand years and this was the homeland of the Jewisg people. G-D gave this land to the Jewish people. Remember Natzis had laws against the Jews and most of the world did not give a damn.
11. comments 4 and 7 are both right and cannot be reconciled
ghilmeini ,   Ohio v'Khandahar   (07.13.12)
How do you have 1.5 to 2 million people live somewhere without rights? But what moral duty do you have when they cry for our annihilation? Th current situation works. The PA is their government and will remain so as long as they refrain from trying to kill us. They have rights, representation and great independence subject only to the needs of the Jewish people to defend themselves. Witness the economic expansion in Ramallah and Gaza. But so long as they call for our blood, reward suicide bomber families and put blood libels in their text books, then sadly there is nothing more we can, will or should offer. In the 1930s they prevented Jewish lives from being saved, in the 40s they allied with Hitler and in 1948 they tried to finish Hitler's work and in 2002 they repudiated a peace agreement and sent Auschwitz to our cafes, buses and Seders. They are consistent. Do not listen to their words, look at their deeds.
12. politiicans who bowed to occupation term
mislon   (07.13.12)
all of the politicans save begin and shamir willingly knifed israel by accepting the occupation term when the facts said it was israel according to san remo and war of 67. rabin, peres, barak, olmert and livni and even sharon should hang their heads in shame. Arab population in these territories will be solved by the next 3 wars will be reduced because of migration and fatalities which will be heavy due to cross fire. the arabs are the occupiers, having come from south syria, yeman, saudi arabia and egypt. they don't even know. the cancer in hamas needs to be stamped out one way or another as it is a cancer. Olmert is responsible for talking israel into leaving it. and the generals do not make good pms period.
13. The only opinion that matters is that of Israeli's
daniel   (07.13.12)
Israel is a sovereign country, after all.
14. OK, so we legally own Judea & Samaria
Tahl   (07.13.12)
And those 3 million Palestinians living there are illegal squatters. Great. What are we gonna do now, with this great piece of news? Practically speaking, what can this proof of legal ownership, actually buy for us in the supermarket?... Are you suggesting we should annex Judea and Samaria, and enforce our sovereignty over 3 million people who see us as their enemy? We are already having a hard time defending our country from their terrorism, how will we protect ourselves when they a part of our country? When they all become ISRAELI CITIZENS? And forget about terror, they wouldn't even have to resort to it when they could democratically overthrow our government with their own majority. And what will we do with the security fence? So far we have successfully explained to the world that it protects us by hermetically separating ourselves from the Palestinians who wish to carry terror attacks in Israel. How will we explain it, when the Palestinian territories we wish to isolate ourselves from, would become a part of our country? So maybe you are suggesting we should just formally declare that Judea and Samaria are annexed to Israel, but changing nothing in the status quo - that is, not giving them citizenship, and leaving the security fence where it is, to limit their movement? In such a case, we would no longer be right to claim we are not practicing Apartheid, because this is exactly what we'll have - a country which treats its residents in according to a double-standard. We'll be in a good company with Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria. So maybe you are suggesting to resolve this problem, by simply throwing out (or "repatriating", whatever you want to call it) the 3 million Palestinians to Jordan? While the world sits idly by, and America still covering out butt politically? Good luck with that. I believe you would have better success teaching pigs to fly. It's not that I love the Palestinians, or hate the idea of the whole of Israel. I'm just being realistic - how we can best survive here. And in order to survive, we cannot just cling to historical facts, no matter how much they prove that our cause is right and correct. Sadly, being right doesn't buy you anything in the supermarket these days. We have to be smart. And the smart thing to do is to separate from our enemies, while doing our best to convince the world that the 1967 borders are bullsh*t, and that we have every right to annex Palestinian-free areas like Maale Adumim, the northern Dead Sea, Har Homa, etc. That's the only way to ensure a viable Jewish state for many years to come, and the sooner we wake up to it, the better.
15. ur funny
juice ,   Atlanta, GA   (07.13.12)
In case you haven't noticed, Israel have the mentioned land to the Arabs. It's not under Israeli control anymore. Arabs who live in Israeli territory DO get all the mentioned rights. We give them 100% and we don't even have them do national service plus they have the freedom of speech to mock is despite all this. But nice try ;)
16. To: No. 4
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (07.13.12)
The Arabs in Judea and Samaria are not citizens of Israel. They are citizens of Jordan. They also happen to be a hostile and violent population. That is why Israel had to build a wall and restrict their movements. Nothing "apartheid" about it -- Israel has an affirmative duty to protect and defend Israeli citizens. The Arabs in Judea and Samaria had Israeli healthcare (still do, in fact) and they had access to Israeli education (still do, in fact, at Israeli universities), but they decided they wanted autonomy. So now they have autonomy, and despite massive infusions of dollars and euros into the ersatz "Palestine" Authority, the infrastructure in the autonomous areas is crumbling, schools and medical clinics have closed, unemployment is very high and inflation is staggering. They wanted autonomy -- they just didn't have a clue what to do with it. Still don't. But the Levy Report opens the door to something which should have been done a very long time ago: repatriation of the ersatz "Palestinians" to Jordan. The ersatz "Palestinians" would accept a one-state solution. It's Israel that doesn't want it -- and since they are Jordanian citizens, Israel doesn't have to extend them anything except the courtesy of a very nice good-bye. We'll pass out sweets. By the way, Israel withdrew from Gaza quite a while ago. Of course, Israel continues to supply Gaza with electricity, fresh water, emergency medical care and tens of thousands of metric tons of humanitarian aid a week. But you're just too jaundiced by your hatred of Israel and of the Jewish people to accept the truth about anything, aren't you? And you fail to recognize the constant terrorism and violence that Israel's rather unpleasant Arab neighbors engage in with regularity. Any other country would have crushed such neighbors like a bug. Perhaps we will, and rid ourselves of that violent cancer.
17. To: No. 3
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (07.13.12)
The rest of the "civilized" world? You mean like the "civilized" world that authored the Holocaust? With that in the "civilized" world's resume, is it any wonder Israel doesn't care? There's more, of course, but we really don't need to examine international perfidy here; besides, the Holocaust is enough of a reason to pay absolutely no attention to international opinion. The so-called "civilized" world has merely substituted good old-fashioned anti-Semitism for a more centralized target -- the Jewish State. Nothing new under the sun.
18. To: No. 2
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (07.13.12)
Well, since Israel is the only country with a say in the matter, it makes absolutely no difference who outside of Israel does or does not accept the findings of the Levy Committee. De facto is now de jure. You can foam at the mouth to your heart's content.
19. To: No. 6
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (07.13.12)
But the Arabs rejected partition, didn't they? They went to war instead. They lost. End of story. Whatever the Yishuv may or may not have accepted in 1947 has absolutely no relevance today. Israel has merely righted a historical wrong -- which forced partition upon the Jews in the first place, in direct contravention of the San Remo Conference. Creating the "Kingdom of the Transjordan" was certainly never part of the plan, either -- I think Israel is willing to live with that gross miscarriage of justice and perversion of San Remo's intent, but Jordan should be made to live with the ersatz "Palestinians" that currently reside in Judea and Samaria and that are Jordanian citizens to begin with. It really isn't all that difficult a concept to grasp. The historically insupportable "Hashemite Kingdom" (whatever that is) should not get away scot-free.
20. # 4
Jules   (07.13.12)
The "Palestinians" are not loyal to Israel, that's the problem. The PLO Charter still states that the PLO goal is to fight Israel, not to recognize it. Also, there is no country named "Israel" on the maps published by the PA. So, unless they PROVE that they will be LOYAL and devoted zionists, there is no way that would have all citizenship rights. Rights come together with OBLIGATIONS !
21. Shlomo, TA #8: you are mixing things up I think
Steve Klein   (07.13.12)
Whether or not Jews living in Judea and Samaria, Jerusalem constitutes an illegitimate "occupation" (as former president Bush / Secretary Rice indicated and Obama / Secretary Clinton explicitly charge) is a separate argument from your question, "what are the author's plans (for) the people living there?" That the author disregards the legal conclusions of almost all other anti-Israel legal experts, what kind of a statement is that? How many of these so-called legal experts do you think are impartial judges? Do you consider the United Nations impartial with respect to Israel? How about the International Criminal Court? Impartial? Are the Muslim and the Muslim-Arab states who largely control these institutions impartial?
22. Eugene #6
Steve Klein   (07.13.12)
You say the Yishuv community accepted the November 1947 United Nations recommendation to partition the land into "Independent Arab and Jewish States." This is true, just as the Zionists reluctantly accepted the 1937 Peel (Commission) Partion proposal. The Revisionist Zionists and later the Irgun did not accept the 1937 and the 1947 partition plans. Nevertheless, the Zionist leadership accepted them (some) hoping for a better outcome in the future. The Arabs outright rejected both plans, opting instead for wars of annihilation. Israel was victorious through these wars of annihilation - more importantly as a consequence of the 1967 Arab war designed to obliterate the Jewish state - and in the process, re-acquired land promised to the Jews not only by God in antiquity but by the League of Nations, the United Nations predecessor. The League of Nations Mandate is a valid treaty to this day.
23. Doug: #4: Palestinians allowed to vote?
Steve   (07.13.12)
Did you know U.S. Congress did not fully enfranchise American Indians until 1924?! First they had to be defeated / crushed, expropriated, bowed and "civilized." White Europeans who conquered the north American continent, had no historic connection to the land, unlike the Jews, Israel. If the American Indians had not been defeated and crushed by these white European interlopers (to whom you in Rochester are a beneficiary), what do you think would have been their lot? Provided these Indian tribes constituted a demographic threat to the white population and were still bent on expelling the sons of colonialists, settlers, squatters, etc., who expropriated their land, do you think Congress would have allowed them to vote? Do you think the American people are so generous?
24. G-d said it's the Jewish homeland. Go argue with him.
Sam ,   Canada   (07.13.12)
However, for the sake of peace most Jews would cede part of the Jewish homeland. Palestinians are not satisfied with that. They want it all. The only way to peace is for Jews to keep settling the West Bank until Palestinians ask for peace as the only way to stop more Jews settling. The peaceniks had it wrong in trying to freeze the Jews out. That only encourages the Palestinians that they have more time to get rid of the other Jews.
25. Op-Ed
Mark ,   U S.   (07.13.12)
Op-Eds are funny and sometimes just plain dangerous and incitefull irresponsible displays of abuse of media. What this Op-Ed is showing us is the danger of Jurist, Legalist and just anybody that knows not the truth, won't accept the truth and has a serious agenda of whatever,,,,, in the words of noted historian John Henrik Clarke "The Jew, the Palestinian, this land factually, historically belongs to neither one",,, so much for Op-Eds.
26. Great, Let's Argue Legality In World Forums!!!
American Jew ,   New Jersey, USA   (07.13.12)
Why do we avoid our sound legal arguments before world legal bodies?!?? Every world organization, including our only friend: our USA, argue contrary legal conclusion 4decades. Let's do it if we have the legal tools and arguments ...
27. The fate of Israel is not written
Yossef   (07.13.12)
in past agreements but in future wars.
28. #4 because they are not civizens
Golan ,   modiin   (07.13.12)
however the Arabs in Yaffo, Acco, Jerusalem, Beersheva, Rahat ect ect ect. do have that. So your apatheid bull fails the Bull Sh-t test. They do however enjoy autonomy, something they did not have under the occupation of the Arabs.
29. #6 Israel's sovereignty is established in 1920
Golan ,   modiin   (07.13.12)
San Remo conference gave the Jews sovereignty in the land of Israel on both banks of the Jordan. The UN partition plan was a resolution voted on by the general assembly and has no international standing aside from a suggestion.
30. Then give all who live in Judea and Samaria the same rights
Harmen Breedveld ,   Leiden, Netherlands   (07.13.12)
If Judea and Samaria are part of Israel, then you have to take the next logical step:$ Give all those who live there equal rights. Israeli citizenship for all those who live there, the same laws for all those who live there, etc. Alternatively, you can either install a form of apartheid, in which some have all rights of Israeli citizens, but others do not. Or, you have to go for deportation of all those you do not want there. The latter two options of course are deeply troubling and go against a whole range of basic human rights, so hopefully Israel has the moral decency not to go there. I, for one, believe that Israelis have that moral decency.
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