Jewish Scene
Women of the Wall recreate iconic Six Day War image
Moshe Heller
Published: 11.08.12, 09:08
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1. No
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (08.11.12)
IMHO this is wrong! Those boys **fought** to get there. The photos weren't a publicity stunt, they laid their live on the line to free the Old City. As much as I respect the Women of the Wall and what they stand for, this is not the way to do things.
2. to 1
RURU ,   JERUSALEM   (08.11.12)
if they lost the war both women and men will suffer so as they won it aught to be to both ... so it is YES,this is about your logic but realy fighting is for men religion is for all
3. meh
Avi   (08.11.12)
Nice try making this lameness a story.
4. Not a women issue
Sandra ,   Ramat Gan, Israel   (08.11.12)
This is not really a women's rights issue. OK, women do have to pray in a separate section, but even there, one finds the place monopolised by ultra-orthodox, wig-wearing women, who give different-minded women ugly looks. This is about the ultra-religious fanatics who have made exclusive claims of "real Judaism" and laid a monopoly on the Jewish Holy places. The men/women separation, in truth, is a pitiful thing, where men are deemed no better than animals who would not be able to restrain themselves in the company of women other than the one they are married to. That's the whole point, and until ultra-religous women start understanding that, and start demanding from their men that they take responsibility for their own weaknesses instead of laying that burden on their women, the situation will remain the same. The photo recreation is a nice idea, and the motivation is admirable, but Mrs. Hoffman and her organisation should not expect it to change anything.
5. absolutely appropriate
nva ,   jerusalem   (08.11.12)
The soldiers who won back Jerusalem are being cheated the rewards of their victory. Both in the denial of Jews to pray on the Temple Mount, and in denying full prayer rights to women. If you look back over history, any time we were able to pray here, it was always men and women together..actually mostly women. This separation fanaticism is recent, tragic, and totally un-Jewish. Kol hakavod to WOW and David Rubinger.
6. GOD IS FROM MOON DAY TO SUN DAY
PHARAOH   (08.11.12)
7. No. 4
AD ,   Toronto   (08.11.12)
Sandra, I agree. People need to understand that this is not a leftist or rightist issue. It's about respect, dignity and decency to all people, men, women and children. And I will say something that the orthodox radicals (and they are in the minority) do not understand ... the Mashiah will not come as long as they show disrespect to their fellow jews. A proud fellow jew.
8. Theocracy where women are to be seen, not heard. 2nd class j
Ari   (08.11.12)
2nd class jews (women)
9. Six day war image
RC ,   RBSA   (08.11.12)
What a bunch of silly ladies - comparing themselves to heroes.
10. It's ironic that while the Women Off The Wall
Abe   (08.11.12)
wear talit and kipa, their husbands who are the ones who are supposed to wear it, don't and neither do they read from the Torah. These women off the wall are doing it just for the publicity.
11. Personal connection
Aron S. ,   Somewhere on Earth   (08.12.12)
The woman in front on the right with the white hat is my mother. Almost 90 years old and still fighting form what she believes is right. May she live to 120! By the way, the Hebrew version of this article generated over 100 comments as of this writing, many of them containing insults aimed at these women and messages that can only be called "Sinat Hinam" or pointless hatred. I asked the people there to take a moment and consider how they would feel if their mother or other loved ones were the target of statements such as the ones they made. I asked them to remember this day if that ever happens and in the meantime to just be ashamed of themselves.
12. To No. 10
Aron S. ,   Planet Earth   (08.12.12)
What's ironic is people like you talking about people they don't know (such as my mother in this picture and her husband, a.k.a. my father) - isn't that called "Lashon Hara"?
13. Not the same!
Joseph ,   London UK   (08.12.12)
How long will the media go along with this dishonesty? The section of the Western Wall at Robinson's Arch is set aside for non-Orthodox services. There is no0 reason for these Women of the Wall to don Tefillin and lein from a Sefer Torah at the Western Wall Plaza. They are welcome to do so at Robinson's Arch, which is part of the Western Wall and just as holy as the Plaza. The expressions on the soldiers faces in 1967 is one of awe that they had liberated the Old City and restored Jewish access to the Western Wall. WOW are in a different position, attacking the sanctity of the Western Wall Plaza.
14. Reply to 5. men and women together
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (08.12.12)
If you look at the time when the Temple stood on the Temple Mount -- and no one prayed at the Western Wall-- there were separate couryards for men and women -- Ezras Nashim and Ezras Yisrael. The separation of men and women in Jewish prayer goes back to the Tabernacle and the Temple. The innovation of family seating in the Reform temple goes back to the 1800's in America and was a conscious imitation of the Protestant church.
15. Halacha leMoshe mi-Sinai
Joseph ,   London UK   (08.12.12)
Some years back in America a civil court ordered a synagogue to put back its mechitza because the people who paid to build the shul could not pray there without a mechitza. An entire volume was published on the Halachic staus of mechitza. The Gaon Reb Moshe Feinstein stated clearly that mechitza at davvening is a Halacha leMoshe mi-Sinai, an eternal law given at Sinai. Your assumption that it has to do with men's interest in women does not merit a mention in Halacha. A Halacha leMoshe mi-Sinai does not need any clear reason, the same as Kashrus, Shabbos, mikveh etc. don't depend on limited human reasoning. They are eternal laws beyond our limited reasoning. If you're not happy with the Wall Plaza organise a women's service at Robinson's Arch.
16. Yes, it's a publicity stunt, but they have a point
Scott ,   USA   (08.12.12)
The Heredim shouldn't ''own" a holy site that belongs to all Jews (and friendly non-Jews).
17. their main obstacle is other women.
Golan ,   modiin   (08.12.12)
Even though I support their endeavor to read (pray they can do) from the torah openly, their main opposition comes from unlike-minded women. So with all due respect, their fight and fundraising is a bit silly when you consider the real issue which is not backing down to bullies. (and that does not require money)
18. #15 you obviously do not know the law.
Golan ,   modiin   (08.12.12)
there is no torho mi moshe lesinoi that requires a mechitza. That is nonsense from babylon. Look in the tanaakh and you will see that women and men touched each other (read the talmud) and you will see women are not required to cover their hair. The idiocy that every thing that comes from a Rabbi's mouth (and there were no rabbis before the late Persian period) is law contradicts the written torah which states "you will not add." And so such a decree such as a mehitza is bitul torah if considered halacha and just a recommendation "buy some guy" if practiced. Also according to Judaism, even if Moses came today and said "oh I forgot I need to add something" he is to be stoned. And in the Talmud the rabbis themselves said that even a prophet "may not add anything new." much less some guy calling himself Rav Rabbi or Master.
19. Women at the Wall
Nili   (08.12.12)
I am fed up with these publicity seeking females. They do not represent me or the vast majority. They are not satisfied to have a special place they want "everyone" to change to their ways. No, No, No! The original picture is iconic because of the bravery of those men. These air-headed women bring shame to the memory.
20. COME ON!
DVIR ,   LA & Jerusalem   (08.12.12)
The Kotel is about men and women being able to pray to Our Creator. This is not a “Mixer!” It is about the ability for all of us to be able to place our hand on The Wall and pray to HaShem. Are you able to do this now? Can you bring a Chumash? Tehillim? Could the women's side be nicer for the women? Absolutely! Does this mean they should try to join the men? G-d forbid! Everyone needs to be focused and concerned about only one thing when they are in the currently holiest accessible place on the earth, connecting to G-d! See your husband when you're done and let him do his thing without you. I promise, he'll still love you when you meet after the one-on-one, i.e. you and HaShem experience which is what is important. Keep your eyes on the bouncing ball people!
21. these extremists want to the Kotel to be a symbol of feminis
zionist forever   (08.12.12)
Their version of religion is a cross between reform & feminism. If they want to hold their own their own prayer services in private thats fine but there is no place for their radical feminist based form of religion at then Kotel. This is is one of the mosy holy sites in the world for Jews and so orthodox service should be the only ones allowed there. It is wrong for women to be holding Torah scrolls and wearing religious objects only men are supposed to wear. This is a unique site and so there should not be any trying to accommodate every type of reform Judaism, some things must be sacred. They should certainly not be be political stunts ( which is all this is ) of women trying to recreate a famous 1967 picture but to promote their own agenda. The men in the original picture had had just fought a long hard battle to take the city, they earned their right to that picture and be considered liberators. These woman have probably never been in the army let alone fight a war should not be having have picture taken so they can try make themselves look like the heros of 2012. "I explained that WOW trying to break the religious monopoly radical religious elements have on the Western Wall for me, you are the true liberators" This is probably the most disgusting comment anybody associated with this group of radicals could make
22. I don't understand
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (08.12.12)
According to their website, Women of the Wall are almost entirely funded by the Ne w Israel Fu nd. The Fu nd is one of the strongest proponents of surrendering the wall to Arab sovereignty and a prohibition of any Jewish prayer or presence there. If these women want the wall to go to Arab sovereignty, why do they want to pray there? And if they want to pray there so badly, why do they take money from people who will prevent them?
23. The Kotel belongs to ALL Jews
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.12.12)
From anti religious to [ fine ] charidim . It's part of OUR History , the History of the Jewish people . Sad that those Orthodox have appropriate this site as if it was their own , as if they were the SOLE owners of it . They did almost NOTHING to LIBERATE Jerusalem in 1967 . What a great moment it was when i heard , Rav Goren blow the Shofar there , when he said : "Today in yeroushalaim" and not "next year..." Sad that normal Israelis can't come there anymore without having to wear a kippa .
24. Feminisits
moti ,   rbs   (08.12.12)
are females missing the importance of the real in judiasm and to busy trying yo be men
25. Excellent
Isaac ,   Mexico   (08.12.12)
I'm for one agree why not? We know next time who goes up front on the next war bunch of ladies dressed up as men ... Or aren't they? Makes sense??
26. #21, check your talmud, my friend
Brana Lobel ,   Israel   (08.12.12)
Women historically wore tefillin , and when Ezra gave Torah lessons in the marketplace on Mondays and Thursdays, I'm sure nobody draped a mechitza across the veggies. You also are dishonoring all the brave Jewish women who fought in the IDF, Haganah, and Resistance during WWII. And don't forget our general and judge Devorah.
27. Most Liberal Synagoues Feminist Ctrs
LaceCurtainSynagogs ,   Jerusalem Israel   (08.13.12)
One cannot help but see when visiting a "liberal" synagogue here or in the west that they have become virtual feminist controlled organizations with few men to be seen anywhere. The same seems to have happened in the Mainlne Protestant churches where women outnumber men in those churches 2 to 1 sometimes there are no men present at akk. Men have in these congregations been marginalised and the synagogues "feminised " to the point males no longer feel comfortable in them. Women certainly desever a place in the synagogue but I feel at this point they have gone off the deep end and their mission is anything but spiritual.
28. Sad & Clueless
Darin ,   USA   (08.13.12)
If these women understood that their need to be like men completely ignores the beauty and elevation unique only to women, they might think twice. They are a product of a secular movement that does not take G-d or His ways into consideration. A woman MAY wear tefillin and tallit, but it is like adding Acne cream to a perfect complexion (or products designed just for men)! It screams to those of us in the know, “I have no idea what this acne cream is for, but if men use it, so can I!” Tefillin, tallit, etc. this is for men to connect with haShem on a level women freely connect to Him at ALL times. Sadly, if you had any Torah knowledge you would know this. The irony is adding a handicap where you already excel! As for Torah... a Torah scroll it too holy for a woman “cycling” to touch. This is not okay according to G-d Himself, and no amount of protests will EVER make it okay to desecrate Our Creator. Embrace Our Differences! Read Torah!
29. Marketplace?!
Darin ,   USA   (08.13.12)
In your attempt to ridicule #21, you illustrated why you are not overseeing The Kotel's propriety issues. That you tried to compare what was acceptable in the marketplace to what is okay at The Kotel speak volumes! Really? Would you also say that the Levi’im and Kohanim who served in the Beit haMikdash were mixed with men and women? In the courtyards did men and women pray together? No. This is the current HOLIEST site which means we do as G-d has prescribed. Women’s self imposed needs cannot be pacified at G-d's expense. G-d forbid! Ask a woman in the know what she thinks about this and why. She will quote you Torah, Talmud and halacha... she will tell you why she connects on a higher level than even most men donning tefillin and tallit! If you don't want to follow this way of life away from this holy site, that is your choice and you are free to do what you want. Make no mistake, at one of G-d's holiest sites, we do as He dictates. This isn't about us. It's about paying homage and connecting to Him.
30. 28 Several points
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (08.14.12)
I would point out you are quoting from the Gaon Reb Moshe Feinstein ztl who said women should not take on men's mitzvahs just to show they can do whatever men do. They may take on men's mitzahs such as Tefillin in private if done out of pure desire for spirituality. Regarding women's cycles, a Sefer Torah is not mekabel tumah and it does not matter if women kiss the Torah during that time of the month. You are referring to a Halacha regarding a woman touching kodshim in the Beis HaMikdash, which was prohibited during her 'cycle.'
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