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Vandals deface church in Jerusalem
Noam (Dabul) Dvir, AFP
Published: 02.10.12, 12:32
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31. Must be brought to justice!
A.Q. ,   Jerusaem   (10.02.12)
These kind of despicable and disgusting people have no place here. State should take it seriously and put someone behind bars. If a synagogue was defaced, you guys think the would be the same?
32. Sarah the gentle dragon...@15
Rob ,   Orangevale USA   (10.02.12)
We all continue to await the Messiah Sarah, as HE was here once, and was murdered by his own. Perhaps. just maybe, you do not know the divine plan HE has for the world. We await HIS coming BACK to do just what you say he will. Had HE not been murdered by those so afraid of HIS teachings... Well, we'll just have to keep waiting to see what is the truth. I hope all of you that deny HIM, have a good back-up plan. Jesus WAS Jewish and always be so. Why dost thou still despise HIM? Shalom Israel, Rob
33. Adam @ 8...
Rob ,   Orangevale USA   (10.02.12)
Sir, your brain is small, and shrinking. Shalom Israel, Rob
34. To: Eaglebeak at No. 30
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (10.02.12)
Thank you for your kind wishes, which I gladly return. As to the other thing -- I will do what Jews have done since time immemorial -- wait patiently for the Messiah ..... but I am glad that you find peace and comfort in your faith.
35. To: No. 32
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (10.02.12)
Let me educate you just a tiny bit. 1. Pontius Pilate sentenced Jesus, not the Jews. All that stuff and nonsense about giving the Jewish people the right to decide upon the fate of a prisoner is precisely that -- stuff and nonsense. I assure you that the Romans did not allow any of the peoples they conquered such a right. In fact, the only place where such a practice finds mention is in the New Testament. Roman rule was very well chronicled, and no mention is made in any of the accounts. Moreover, Pontius Pilate was deemed to be such a cruel and bad prefect -- even by Roman standards -- that he was eventually called to Rome and told to commit suicide, or be killed. 2. G-d doesn't need a son, a daughter, nieces, nephews or anything else. To suggest otherwise erodes the concept of monotheism. Monotheism, after all, is not three-in-one oil. Keep in mind as well just who Christianity was trying to attract -- having failed to attract a significant Jewish following, early Christians turned to the Greeks and the Romans, who believed in a pantheon of gods, who every now and again would come to earth and sire children that were both divine and mortal. That's where the concept comes from. 3. I don't despise Jesus. I just discount him as the Messiah. Besides, his "teachings" are murky at best -- the gospels are not consistent, and were set down a century following the death of Jesus. Subsequent "gospels" have turned up that differ greatly from the four accepted gospels. 4. Shall we just agree that you are entitled to keep your faith and I am entitled to keep mine -- burning Jews at the stake is passe, you know? I hope that YOU have a good back-up plan; me, personally? I don't need one.
36. The post at No. 29 is not mine.
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (10.02.12)
37. 31
(10.02.12)
Agreed and hope you will say the same thing if it turns out the perps are Arabs/Muslims because no suspects have been caught yet and Jews aren't always the ones guilty of this kind of hateful vandalism.
38. No 35
Ron ,   France   (10.02.12)
" I assure you that the Romans did not allow any of the peoples they conquered such a right." Any proof to back that up? Thought not!
39.  it goes against Judaism?
roger ,   zurich switzerland   (10.02.12)
Peres talking rubbish again. He's a liar. He knows that this is the very essence of classical rabbinical Judaism, which is profoundly Christophobic. Maimonides said Christ was in hell with the wicked...the Talmud states he is boiling in excrement for eternity. There is tremendous contempt and disgust for Jesus in Judaism.
40. Vandals? The Germanic tribe?
Avi ,   NYC, US   (10.02.12)
Are you saying that members of the nomadic German tribe, the Vandals, appeared in Jerusalem started to deface churches? Probably not. It was the work of Jewish extremists. So why not say: "Jews Deface a Church in Jerusalem"?
41. To #9 Mark
JM   (10.02.12)
Please Mark, don't jump too quickly into the conclusion that it was done by Jewish people here in Israel; Jewish people have always lived with Christians side by side respecting each other, think a little bit more, why would the Jews start doing what they've never done before. Don't let the enemi of our souls blind you. This was done by the spirit of the enemi =islam. Here in Israel arabs write and read in Hebrew since they go to the same public schools and Universities.
42. ***Sarah***at 35...WELL said, but I will say
Chris Rettenmoser ,   Bayerisch Gmain Germ   (10.02.12)
nothing at this point, because I SURELY would offend...oh well...
43. To: Chris at No. 42
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (10.02.12)
You can say anything you want to me, at any time. If I find it offensive, I will tell you .... although I doubt I would be offended in the slightest.
44. Sarah @35
Rob ,   Orangevale USA   (10.02.12)
First of all I would like to apologize for the initial characterization of 'dragon'. That was uncivilized and rude. Please forgive me. I am a man of faith. As such there are alot of things told us in the Torah, as well as the Bible, that are unseen in modern times, and as the victor usually writes the new history and archaic writings are 'spirited away' for safe keeping from the various hordes, much of what we have is taken on faith. I am nobody to say who the Messiah is or isn't. That is the unvarnished truth. I dont hold you responsible for Pilots' decision, and am saddened by the passing of the buck . Pilot WAS a Jew, had authority over Jews, made the decision I alluded to earlier. When I said we can not know Jesus other than the written scrolls in Aramaic, and faith alone, I am bound to accept that. I have read the Bible cover to cover, many times and that obviously includes the first four books. So many times did the established prophets see in advance for the coming of the Son of Man, that I have difficulty understanding how Jesus was castigated and eventually killed for his pure views and telling of the Torah. " Burning Jews at the stake' is repulsive then and now. It shall always be that way. We shall of course agree that each of our faiths are ours alone to choose and precious to us both. The both glorify our relationship with and to G-d. Thank you for your reasoned, if not differing view. Shalom Israel, Shalom Sarah, (the real) Rob
45. ***Sarah***at 43, Of course I would never
Chris Rettenmoser ,   Bayerisch Gmain Germ   (10.02.12)
offend you !!!!! Just some of the others... You are ALWAYS an inspiration for me Sarah...! Your explanation was just GREAT !
46. To: No. 44
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (10.02.12)
1. Apology accepted. Quite gracious of you, actually. (I wasn't offended; I've been called worse.) 2. Pontius Pilate was a Roman, not a Jew. Trust me -- he was a citizen of Rome, and no Jew could be a citizen; not even the designated "Court" Jew, Josephus Flavius. 3. The Torah is actually the first five books. It represents G-d's word, as taken down by Moses. Everything else, as Hillel so wisely pointed out, is just commentary. I will say that very few translations of the Bible are accurate. If you really want to read the Hebrew Bible, the best translation available is the Megiddo.
47. To: No. 38
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (10.03.12)
Because it is nowhere evident in heavily documented Roman chronicles. In fact, your average Roman procurator would have scoffed at the very notion. People conquered by the Romans were suitable for one thing; and one thing only: enslavement. They could have cared less about acknowledgement of other peoples' holidays, and were not in the habit of ceding any decision-making to a non-Roman.
48. #1 FAKE SARAH
BEN JABO (MACHAL) ,   ISRAEL   (10.03.12)
IF Haredi did it, nobody knows, it could very well have been Arabs, stirring up Trouble, certain, paint is a lot less harmful than an Arab bomb being place in a Church while people are praying inside
49. Time for the rabbis to take action...
Roy Doliner ,   Rome, Italy   (10.03.12)
As a religious Zionist, I am appalled and disgusted by this price-tagging. Hillel said that the whole Torah can be crystalized into "What is hateful to you, do not do to others." We are rightfully hurt and angered when someone sprays anti-Jewish graffiti on our synagogues and cemeteries - how could any Jews who call themselves religious desecrate another people's place of worship? Pirkei Avot says: "Eyn derech eretz, eyn Torah" - "Where there is no proper conduct, there is no Torah." Obviously, the imbeciles who did this act have not absorbed a word of Torah into their hearts and minds. Our enemies, when the public media forces them to condemn shameful acts, will usually say "this does not help our cause against the Jews" or "this makes us look bad". The awful PR that comes from this price-tagging idiocy is not and should never be our top priority. Our main concern must always be conducting ourselves in the way of Torah and not becoming a sad reflection of our enemy's behavior and lack of decency. The police and IDF should not have to track down these culprits. The rabbis in Yesha should put out the word and order the price-taggers to turn themselves in, in order to do t'shuva, the proper repentance. Enough of this disgraceful juvenile nonsense.
50. to Sarah B at no 5
john Darren ,   cairns-Austraalia   (10.03.12)
You are correct-you cannot be a Jew and a follower of Jesus.
51. 44
john Darren ,   cairns-Austraalia   (10.03.12)
Pilot was a Roman.Very little research required .Posts 35 and 46 are spot on. There is not one single word written about Jesus in his own life time by anyone.Think about that. Shalom Rob.
52. christians
merle ,   usa   (10.03.12)
apologize for your own shortcomings...Jesus Christ needs none..."I am the truth,the way,and the life .No man cometh to the Father but by me.
53. To: No. 49
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (10.03.12)
I'm sorry, but is there any concrete evidence that the perpetrators were, in fact, Jews? No, there isn't. Oughtn't you then shut your mouth?
54. To: No. 39
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (10.03.12)
Umm, well, apart from the fact that you really need to do a Talmud cycle (seven years) before commenting upon the Talmud, I note that you have carefully refrained from documenting your sources. You should, because your comments are patently absurd. That said -- how do Christians feel about false Messiahs? And what proof can you offer that Christ was the Messiah? There are some very specific things that the Messiah must do, and thus far, none have emerged. Q.E.D., the true Messiah has yet to make an appearance. The invention of a "second coming" does not change this rather glaring fly in the ointment. There is no "disgust" for Jesus in Judaism. We kind of ignore him. It's up to you to prove he was the Messiah; not up to us to disprove it. The Bible has taken care of that.
55. Pontius Pilate
Allan ,   New York   (10.03.12)
Pontius Pilate was the fifth Prefect of the Roman province of Judaea, from AD 26–36. He is best known as the judge at Jesus' trial and the man who authorized the crucifixion of Jesus. According to the New Testament accounts, the Jewish authorities in Jerusalem charged Jesus with blasphem, and sought his execution. However, according to John 18:31, the Judean authorities lacked the authority to have Jesus put to death. In all four gospel accounts, Pilate avoids responsibility for the death of Jesus. In the Gospel of Matthew, Pilate washes his hands to show that he was not responsible for the execution of Jesus and reluctantly sends him to his death. The Gospel of Mark, depicting Jesus as innocent of plotting against the Roman Empire, portrays Pilate as reluctant to execute Jesus. In the Gospel of Luke, Pilate not only agrees that Jesus did not conspire against Rome, but Herod Antipas, the Tetrarch of Galilee, also finds nothing treasonable in Jesus' actions. We find in the Gospel of John, Pilate states “I find no guilt in him” and he asks the Jews if Jesus should be released from custody. Pilate is portrayed in the Gospel accounts as a reluctant accomplice to Jesus' death. Modern scholars note that a Roman Governor such as Pilate would have no problem in executing any leader whose followers posed a potential threat to Roman rule. It has also been suggested that the Gospel accounts may have downplayed the role of the Romans in Jesus' death during a time when Christianity was struggling to gain acceptance in the Roman world. Basically it all took place almost 2,000 years ago, was very poorly documented at the time, and much of what we ‘know’ was written up by a variety of sources, many of whom had a vested interest, decades after the death of Jesus. All in all, best not to get too worked up over the past and focus on building a better future.
56. #55...The Gospel of Mark was a lie and the
Chris Rettenmoser ,   Bayerisch Gmain Germ   (10.03.12)
others just copied it...it contains NO historic proof whatsoever !
57. #56 Unlike your wonderful post
Jake   (10.03.12)
which contains so much evidence and historical fact to back ups its claims.
58. #46, Sarah B, that's not true.
Jake   (10.03.12)
Josephus Flavius did become a citizen of Rome, and he was adopted into the family (Flavius) of the emperors Vespasian and Titus. Other Jewish citizens of Rome: Saul of Tarsus (AKA Paul), Herod, Tiberius Julius Alexander (nephew of Philo and Praetorian Prefect under Titus). And in 212, all freemen of the Empire, including most Jews, received Roman citizenship.
59. #35
sealift67 ,   northern calif   (10.04.12)
The proof is documented in Roman rule and military tactics. Nothing tactical was left to chance. An unruly mob would not have been allowed to assemble, as the city was in a total lockdown due to concerns regarding Jewish insurrection. If you read the gospels first described is a crowd, then a mob and by John, as the Jews. As Sarah stated inconsistent, and Romans never allowed a non-Roman 'vote' of any type.
60. Could be anyone
Gabriel ,   Israel   (10.04.12)
Could be a tourist, could be Muslims offended by the mocking of their prophet, trying to pass on guilt to settlers to incite conflict between Jews and Christians... We cannot lose our mutual friends in the region. Jews and Christians are the same and should treat each other with respect. For me, these attacks were made by a crazy man, and probably not jew.
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