Jewish Scene
Indian restaurant takes on Rabbinate
Mosher Heller
Published: 15.10.12, 15:18
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1. "Vegan" not necessarily Kosher
Dan ,   NJ   (10.15.12)
Being a vegan is not the same as being Kosher. Laws of Kashrut apply to more than animal products. For example, one who eats only fruits and vegetables still needs to check them for insects and other non-Kosher pests. One who eats produce from the Land of Israel must ensure that the produce has been properly tithed. The Rabbinate requires purchasing ingredients from certified sources in order to ensure that these and other standards are met. These requirements may seem onerous to business owners, but without them it is not possible to establish that the food, even if vegan, is truly Kosher.
2. Long List
Nathan Mowszowski ,   Raanana   (10.15.12)
Can the author substantiate his assertion that there is a long list of businesses which have given up their kosher certification list? What is a long list? 2 or 3 or more? Sloppy journalism
3. I'll be eating there.
vince the prince   (10.15.12)
4. Vegan? Then who cares?
Alex   (10.15.12)
I'd never eat there regardless if they have a license or not...
5. If you want to play the game, play, else don't.
Josh   (10.15.12)
If you buy vegetables so you can make Rabbinically Kosher food, then you have to buy Rabbinically Kosher vegetables. This, is not about following Torah, this is about accepting the Rabbinical control over the interpretation and their imposition on Jews that they are in the proper position to do such. (ref Dev 13) If you want the certificate, a Rabbinical blessing, a Rabbinical marriage, or anything else they provide as a service, you have to as the saying of another religion goes, give to Caesar and be a friar. That is the way it goes when you accept one can add to Torah and dictate new terms and conditions. Best thing to do is not accept it and pay your part to stand on your own two moral feet. That is my opinion anyway.
6. At least Kosher people don t share..
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (10.15.12)
their food with bugs and other disgusting non invited guests. That s for sure.
7. Of course they need to buy from approved stores
Jack   (10.15.12)
There are issues of terumot and maaserot, and ensuring that the produce is bug-free and clean.
8. Nice!
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (10.15.12)
Never even noticed this store before, but now I will look for it! Hope that lots 'n lots of others follow their example!
9. Obviously this restraunt was NEVER kosher of the owner would
Simi ,   Jerusalem   (10.15.12)
understand that there are also rules for kosher vegetables. Bet these people aren't even Jewish. How can they be so ignoraant?
10. #7 Seconding Jack there.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (10.15.12)
These are rather basic Kashrut issues.
11. #1 it's not that difficult.
Stan ,   USA   (10.15.12)
The bugs are irrelevant. Any competent certification teaches the workers how to clean the vegetables properly and doesn't demand that they buy bug free products. The same situation with tithing. If you're not going to bother to work with the restaurant, why even bother being in the certification business?
12. "The Rabbinate does not profit from this arrangement."
split ,   US   (10.15.12)
Obviously ;) ,...
13. incitement to give impression of corruption.
Lemmings Hotline ,   sd usa   (10.15.12)
The article gives the impression that the Rabbinut has stores that bribe them to put them on their list, when such is not the case. The list of stores are those who have certification because they keep a higher level of kashrut. perios
14. Indian Restaurant
yoel ,   Israel   (10.15.12)
The owner of this establishment is right- why is she being forced to purchase veggies from shops belonging to persons on the insistance of the Kashrut supervisor- bull shit and more bull shit
15. Question of information...
M. Davison ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (10.15.12)
Did the Rabbinate representative give her a list of suppliers to choose from freely, or did he name specific suppliers to buy from without including all possible suppliers? The first option is legitimate if the restaurant wanst a Kashrut certificate; the second is not-- it is coercion to buy through specific suppliers even though others are available, for reasons not determined in the article, but suspect...
16. #'s 1, 6 & 7
Ariel ,   Modi'in, Israel   (10.15.12)
Oh please!!! I have found worms more than once on my plate when eating salads at a "kosher" establishment with a mashgiach on the premises. The vegetables probably came from one of the predetermined establishments that ensure they are pest free!! The whole farce of issuing of kashrut certificates is simply a money making racket and nothing else. None of their man made rules and ordinances will absolve you from accepting God's laws upon yourself if you want to adhere to them. Nowhere does God say that the onus is on someone else to ensure that you don't accidentally trespass or that they assume the responsibility for your inactions!!!
17. # 6 ,...
split ,   US   (10.15.12)
Of course your kosher-nostra cops are checking every vegetable and fruit in the stores and markets around Israel ;) ,...
18. Vegan does not equal kosher
yitz ,   israel   (10.15.12)
this just shows the ignorance of the journalist and shop owner. For a religious jew, it is as bad to eat unsupervised vegetables as it is to eat a slice of pork. They have obviously never heard of teruma and maaser (or bugs).
19. Interesting that Haredim ASSUME everyone else eats bugs
Israeili Jew ,   Israel   (10.15.12)
Dumbasses!
20. Maasros v'trumos of veggies & fruits went to Mikdash & Cohan
Cyberbrain ,   World   (10.15.12)
Hey sanctimonious greedmongers - there's not a Mikdash anymore. No genealogy no legitimate cohenim either. So, today these fools recite an incantation and throw out Maasros v'trumos. THAT wasteful charade is their all-important Maasros v'trumos. Don't make the blasphemous cult claim that Tora has any more connection to this than to kapparos and shlichos. The more one thinks about it the less connection to Tora the Haredim have -- and yet Israel permits them to rule. Who's the real dumbasses?
21. #16 *shrug* People aren't perfect.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (10.15.12)
And some employers lean on the Mashgiach to go their way, or he loses his job. Sometimes there isn't even a mashgiach on site at all times, and there are only surprise check-ups. And sometimes it depends largely on the attention and regulation of the city Rabbi and the Religious Council of that area. Is this new to you? Why do you think Haredim generally only eat Badatz Kosher food, inspected by a private organization that they respect? It's a matter of *quality*. And at the same time, some cities are known to be of a high Kashrut standard, and Haredim will eat Rabbanut Kosher food with ease. And of course, some Kashrut certificates are plain fake. The Rabbanut issues warnings and informs on disqualified places on a regular basis. If a place of business wants to maximize profits while conning religious Jews, then it will present a respectable veneer with a fake certificate while buying up non-Kosher foods. Nothing's perfect with human beings involved. Welcome to life.
22. #18 ...z :-)
mark ,   ca   (10.15.12)
Trust me, slice of pork prepared by Michelin star chef is way better than unsupervised vegetables .
23. Kashrus issues
Joseph ,   London England   (10.15.12)
I supervised kashrus for a boarding school for some years, and when I trained the catering staff I always emphasised that our meat and fish suppliers had kosher supervision, and therefore our main problem was to avoid any vegetables that may have any form of insects. Some vegetables were off the menu because they were too difficult for me to examine in quantities sufficient to feed hundreds of pupils. All kosher operations have careful rules about certain vegetables, even without all the extra rules regarding produce of the Holy Land. Vegan does not mean kosher.
24. 16 Man-made rules and ordinances?
Danny ,   London England   (10.15.12)
If you read Leviticus chapter 11, you will note that the prohibition is in the Torah itself. The only way you can eat restaurant cooked vegetables without a shomer is for you to go in the kitchen and exame all the vegetables before they are cooked. You may as well stay home and examine your own veggies. In any case, unfortunately the restaurant's insurance covers only catering staff and not customers.
25. It does not matter if it is vegan
Keren ,   IL-BR   (10.15.12)
To be kasher,in Israel,I understand that the products must be taken from a land that have had respected the seven year rest. It makes sense. Elsewhere than in Israel I eat in any vegan,but in Israel ,I prefer a kosher vegan or vegetarian.
26. @24 you said it: it's man made
david ,   Jerusalem   (10.16.12)
if it's in the bible then it's man made. Or do you still think the bible was written by your god?
27. Vegan = Cruelty Free, Kosher = Extremely Cruel
Don ,   Chicago, USA   (10.16.12)
Yes, Kosher and Vegan are different... Very Different.
28. Worms, insects, maaser, trumah etc.
No insects   (10.16.12)
This cretinous rabbinical board presumes that without their ignorance-laden kashrut certificate board that the the average Jewish citizen will willfully eat insects without inspecting the produce/fruits first. Never mind some insects crop up fully grown from their quasi-invisible larval stage way after the certificate of Kashrut has been granted. IDIOT Kashrut money-grubbing entomology-ignorant rabbis one and all! There was NEVER any known Kashrut-board in the days of the Tanach' because there was no need for such government-sponsored idiocies. The heavy-duty believers did what they believed they must do and the others (the Am Haaratzim and other lesser ones) did as best as they could. As to maaser and trumah, given the destruction of the Beit Hamikdash, do these tithing laws have any relevance before a new Beit Hamikdash comes about i.e. until Meschiach comes? Rabbinical opinions notwithstanding, there is NO basis whatsoever for their enforcement until Meschiach comes bimeherah beyameynou. So much for these worthless hech'sherim and the endless troubles they create for everyone.
29. To #24
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (10.16.12)
Your interpretation of Leviticus 11 is not correct. Yes there is a ban in Leviticus against eating certain kinds of insects, but, there is no requirement that each individual must do the inspection themselves in order to keep the ban. The requirement for inspection was added by the rabbis and is not in the Torah. Therefore the need to buy from certain vendors is an unreasonable requirement especially with today's agriculture practices and if the restaurant carries out the inspection themselves.
30. Kashrut certification a financial game
Daniel ,   Tel Aviv and USA   (10.16.12)
As a child growing up in Chicago, my parents, grandparents, and I kept strictly kosher. We only bought things labeled with an OU or CRC. As an adult I learned a few things: Kashrut makes sense to a point. The Rabbinate has corrupted Kashrut What was Kosher in 1975 is no longer Kosher only because some rabbis decided e.g. fresh raspberries. Totally ridiculous! I was informed bugs were the factor...so magically bugs appeared in the 21st Century. I applaud this Indian Restaurant for taking a stand against this nonsense. ALL FRUITS AND VEG ARE KOSHER I've read the Torah too.
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