Opinion
Guns and abortions
Hagai Segal
Published: 28.10.12, 11:06
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20 Talkbacks for this article
1. two comments
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (10.28.12)
Raz Atias was about to be drafted. He stole his father's gun and tried to shoot police. This had nothing to do with the pregnancy, the boy had serious issues that his parents ignored or were unaware of. When the pregnancy became known, Atias' mother went ballistic. Instead of making the couple feel loved and supported, she demanded an immediate abortion. If they had managed to talk to the people of Efrat or any loving counselor, this might not have happened. Instead, the two were left alone and hopeless.
2. where are your"friends"when you need them,facebook adicts?
yoni ,   rbs israel   (10.28.12)
where are your "friends"when you need them,facebook adicts?
3. I agree
Naomi ,   Merkaz   (10.28.12)
With comments 1 and 2. These are the only real and true opinions that I've read.
4. Abortion and murder by guns have one thing in common.
Sol   (10.28.12)
They're both murder.
5. A good open minded article, on a complex subject.
Michael ,   California, USA   (10.28.12)
The pro-abortion organization did not deserve criticism. We may never know why this teenager acted as he did in desperation and it is unfair to blame EFRAT. I feel sorry for his family and his friends. Abortion is a sensitive issue in Israel while not so in more established countries. The fact of the matter is there are too many people in this world. Abortions are here to stay and the reality of it should be taught in schools to everybody.
6. @1 u know all of this because u were the fly on the wall....
(10.28.12)
listening to every word and witnessing every action. And yet instead of acting in time to save their young lives all you can bring yourself to do now is to bring on an impotent attack on the family! Wow! The correct words to describe you escape me at the moment ... a good thing too because this TB probably won't be published if I found the words that escape me now
7. oh pahleez this is after the fact pontification
(10.28.12)
and this defense of Efrat! really...that organization is just as bad as its radical left opposite number. Extremism of any kind is a bad and evil thing...Efrat is extremist.
8. gun? not locked? Efrat is guilty!!
Larry ,   Los Angeles   (10.28.12)
The law in this country is very clear and rigid. Gun must be locked separately from the magazine and ammo. According to the reports, the father had the gun under his pillow - that is forbidden under the law - but no one mentions that. Instead the blame is shifted to Efrat. Two: what kind of relationship existed between the boy and the family that the boy decided to take his life? It would seem to me that much is missing here. But then again it is much easier to blame Efrat! Let's not look for scapegoats. Let's place the responsibility back where it belongs.
9. Reader Beware
BR ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (10.28.12)
This article is obviously a poor translation from the original Hebrew. EFRAT does not help women to get abortions. It tries to convince them not to. The whole article is incomprehesnible and incoherent and doesn't at all explain what happened. YNET -- get professional translators!!
10. Larry #8 what country are you talking about?
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (10.28.12)
"The law in this country is very clear and rigid. Gun must be locked separately from the magazine and ammo" Sure as hell isn't the law in America, nor Israel. It must be secured yes - locked up and unloaded? Not a chance - an unloaded gun is worthless and there is no such law in either country.
11. #6 Actually, you'd know the answer
babawawa ,   new york, usa   (10.28.12)
to your question about being a fly on the wall if you read ynet. It was reported here that the mother of the boy demanded an abortion. After the boy's death, the mother of the girl agreed to it. Got any correct words for that?
12. Efrat: what is their role here
ma nishma ,   modiin   (10.28.12)
Did Efrat have more to do with this tragedy than the parents? Why did the boy and girl not turn to their parents? What kind of relationship existed? Before we blame Efrat, let's do some investigation. Whether you are pro or anti abortion, lets get all the facts on the table and then see what caused this sad tragedy.
13. a little bit of hessed is in order...
Jew with Cojones ,   Israel   (10.28.12)
Mr. Segal has not mentioned that the family members who were interviewed were interviewed less than 24 hours after the incident and the burial of the young man. Mr. Segal fails to remember that: We are not meant to judge our fellow person when that person speaks out of deepest pain and grief. Mr. Segal instead of making a hessedful statement of support for the grieving family has chosen to blame them and defend an Extreme pro-life group. Mr. Segal has chosen to forget that according to strict interpretation of Jewish law the Extreme pro-life position of the EFRAT group flies in the face of Jewish law. Mr. Segal has chosen to present his agenda instead of allowing just a little bit of goodly hessed to rise from his words. I for one feel sorry for Mr. Segal!
14. #13 Cojo, Israeli law applies.
Michael ,   California, USA   (10.28.12)
No other law exists in the land nor does your imagination on it apply to anything. But I do agree with you that some of the facts in the story might have been interpreted prematurely.
15. #14 about the law of the Israeli Land...
Jew with Cojones ,   Israel   (10.28.12)
It is based upon: 1. Turkish Law 2. British Law 3. Israeli Law and 4. yes my friend in California Jew Halacha. But don't take my word for it...go look up what law applies to all personal matters relating to the lives of Jewish Israelis. When you have found the answer come back and share with us. (P.S. and then look up what law applies to all personal matters relating to the lives of Moslem Israelis and Christian Israelis - I do believe you will find all of that very interesting and enlightening)
16. #14 actually #13 is on spot
Jew ,   JewLandia   (10.28.12)
In Israel all personal matters are covered by the laws governing the religion of the individual involved. In Israel abortion rights are covered under the laws governing personal matters. For example a Jewish woman's right to abortion is determined in part by the body of Jewish Religious Law. For a Christian woman the body of law is Christian and for a Muslim woman the body of law is Muslim. The laws of each woman's religion are included in determining her legal right to an abortion ... the over riding law for all three religious groups is the Israeli Law on abortion. (FYI Modern Israeli Law is based in three different historical traditions: Turkish, British and Jewish)
17. #10 Gee , Zikron Yaakov
Larry ,   Los Angeles   (10.29.12)
I live in Israel 36 years and used to have a hand gun for over twenty years. Every few years I (like all gun owners in Israel) must go to a range and to renew my gun license. At the gun range, the instructor tells each of us the importance of not leaving a gun lying around the house if you are not around. It must be locked up separately from the magazine and ammo. Do some research before you speak. Speaking without brains engaged is as dangerous as leaving the house with a loaded gun under your pillow!
18. Nice
Veronique ,   Israel   (10.29.12)
Nice! Everybody is fighting everybody where I think that it is obvious that young people have sex, that they can have babies, that guns are around, and that teenagers and young people often do not speak to their parents. So what we need is some kind of hot line where people can explain their problems and sympathetic adults can help them decide what they want and find the possible solutions - be that of an unwanted pregnancy, young people under stress before the army, people who owe money to the government and can't pay (so they don't kill themselves), and so on. Modern life is complicated, people don't manage very well and need someone who can help them negociate for a better life. What about all these ministers without portfolio --- may be they could have a cross-over ministry that can talk to all the other ones and help people with their problems????
19. What happened...
Adam Neira ,   Paris, France   (10.29.12)
Another question the writer conveniently ignores is..."What happened to Raz Attias between the ages of three and a half to eight years old ?"
20. #17 LA Larry
yosef ,   williamsburg afloat   (10.29.12)
Larry, you have been in LA too long - you are spinning the truth. Your initial post said the locked and separated guns was the law and in your follow up post in a sense said it was advised. i agree with #10 - what country are you living in??
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