Jewish Scene
'Rabbi Aviner presents women as threat'
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 29.10.12, 14:44
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28 Talkbacks for this article
1. women on the knesset lists
joe ,   washington dc   (10.29.12)
I have not understood why no party has yet thought about a man, woman alternating (ie 50:50) knesset list. This would ensure women representation and also probably be a boon for the party that chooses it. these "modesty" police need to go to iran or realize that separation of sexes is for the shul only (and not in every shul if it is not desired), and definitely not for public life.
2. Go get a real job buddy and learn to control your sexual
David ,   Haifa, Israel   (10.29.12)
3. leader
john ,   toronto   (10.29.12)
Anyone who suggests that women are not worthy to take leadership, should not be a rabbi. I am sure a woman will be a better leader for Israel and deal with issues of the people.
4. Any form of contemplation by the religious segment of our
tom ,   tel aviv   (10.29.12)
society in regard to real life phenomena (women being part of that) is as relevant as Blind People's Society discussing colors of highway signs. But they are welcome to waste their own time as long as we don't have to participate.
5. pro por tion
Larry ,   Los Angeles   (10.29.12)
After reading the original statement, and in the context to which it was stated, which was a theoretical question if it were considered modest for women to run for public office, to which the rabbi responded that it was not really, it is not that he says it is forbidden, but rather that it is better not to. Things should be seen in pro pro ti on or they look strange.
6. Stepping up to the plate...
Adam Neira ,   Paris, France   (10.29.12)
As has been mentioned elsewhere regarding Rabbi Aviner's comments, Devorah was a person who stepped up to the plate of political leadership at a crucial time in Jewish history. Fast forward 3100 years or so and the fact remains that the world needs strong, traditional, courageous, wise women on the political stage. (A caveat...They should not sacrifice their potential maternal blessing on the altar of a career. It's about balance.) There does not need to be a battle of the sexes either. Wisdom can rest on the shoulders of the most unlikely of candidates. P.S. Devorah, Tamar and Ruth's prophetic qualities are often overlooked. Are there any women alive today who have exhibited similar prophetic insight ? Fascinating question non ?
7. Thankfully there are Resposibile Rabbis too
meir elazar   (10.29.12)
First of all it is good to know there are some sane rabbis such as Rabbi Cherlow and Rabbi Neuwirth as opposed to Aviner. Aviner's comments reflect sexual repression and control which is at the core of his sick remarks. It is appropriate to look at Aviner and then examine last week's Parsha where Avraham in Breishit 12:12 tells Sarah that she is beautiful and to say she is Avraham's sister to save Avraham's life. later in sentence 12:18 Pharoah states that Pharoah took Sarah for his wife clearly stating that he had sexual relations with Sarah. If this is not another example of exploitation of women, I don't know what is. Some people may try to posture but the Torah and its language is clear and irrefutable. In the story of Esther, Mordechai is extremely knowledgeable and tells Esther to tell everything to the King. Esther, however, is far smarter and knows that presentation and timing is everything. Had it been done Mordechai's way, the Jews would have perished. Esther was right and she saved the Jews. That is why the book is named after her and not Mordechai. So Aviner it is time for you to learn some actual Torah and deal with your sexual repression and neuroses.
8. Rav Aviner True to HaRav Kook
Reuven ,   Baltimore MD   (10.29.12)
Rav Aviner is being faithful to the ideas of HaRav Kook when he recommends limits on women in political leadership as Rav Cherlow admits. We also should take our cues from HaRav Kook and the contemporary rabbis who follow his path. It is arrogant for critics to think they know better than HaRav Kook on these matters. Let us stay faithful to the ideas of gadolim such as HaRav Kook who point the way for the nation to follow. Kol HaKavod to Rav Aviner for his faithful service to HaRav Kook!
9. how about female rabbis?
Marcos ,   Argentina   (10.29.12)
I love them.
10. #4 Trouble is Tom its our tax money paying for these clowns
David ,   Haifa, Israel   (10.29.12)
11. Women as a threat
Thomas ,   Liestal/Switzerland   (10.29.12)
A Rabbi is a wise man - he is a guardian of the jewish heritage - but also a translator of this heritage into modern life! Rabbis should care about the Jewishness of Israelis: What is it to be Israeli - to be Jewish? What makes the difference between Israel and the western democracies? These are Israels main questions that will decide the survival of Israel! So Rabbies come out into the streets of Israel and take an interest in daily life - and then let your wisdom work!
12. sharia judism at its best
abdalla   (10.29.12)
13. Why are the orthodox so hung up on sex?
Sidney ,   USA   (10.29.12)
Maybe the rabbis are like the Catholic clergy a self-selected group of sexual misfits. I do not know anything in Jewish tradition or Tanach that backs their position.
14. Rabbis vie for power, declare their own importance.
Michael ,   California, USA   (10.29.12)
Why should it matter what those rabbis say? Whom do they represent, who elected them and why? They declare there is something outside this world that empowers them, something nobody has seen nor heard from. They show you some books that even Joseph Smith could write a better one for the Mormons only 150 years ago and be more successful as a religion than Jews are after 3500 years. Rabbis' self empowerment is totally negligible and this is why I don't hesitate to discard it at every opportunity, pay no attention to anything they come up with ever.
15. #6, Prophetic insight or rich imagination?
Michael ,   California, USA   (10.29.12)
Nostradamus is the most acknowledged prophet. Is there any woman predicting water level rises in oceans? Pick her as the prophetess of today, without fail.
16. Rav Kook
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (10.29.12)
As he said, this was the view of Rav Kook ztl, the spiritual leader of religious Zionism and first chief rabbi of British Palestine, would all the hostile posters say the same of Rav Kook, asuming they have heard of him?. Rabbi Aviner said nothing new. I happen to disagree, but I do not deny his right to express his view.
17. Rent a mob?
Danny ,   London England   (10.29.12)
There seems to be a rent-a-mob of posters who attack anything any rabbi says, without exhibiting any real interest in the subject. Halachic discourse is a two-way conversation between people who have an interest in the subject, and a modicrum of courtesy.
18. Rabbi Aviner's view is symptomatic
Runner1983 ,   USA   (10.29.12)
of the haredi culture where children are not socialized to deal with the opposite sex. Women in the haredi culture are marginalized, and this will prove to be a huge detriment to the future of Israel. It is a tragedy for Israel the way women are viewed by the Haredim.
19. #8 Revuen:
Runner1983 ,   USA   (10.29.12)
Why don't you use some good critical judgment and common sense, and let others do the same. This rabbi is accountable to no one. What he says only reflects his warped sense of a society that cannot lead a modern technological society. You cannot marginalize 50% of the population and hope to survive as a nation. Because of the relatively rapid growth of the haredi segment of the population, it is absolutely imperative that the women of Israel not be marginalized. It is absolutely imperative that haredi children be educated in secular subjects, because someday they will represent a large portion of the adult population. It is absolutely imperative haredi men join the workforce and be productive citizens, because some day those that work will not be able to provide welfare to those that don't. Unless all of this occurs, Israel will not be able to,defend itself militarily or a economically.
20. Discrimination
David ,   Herzlia,Israel   (10.29.12)
Again you are giving a stage to the ignorant racist so called Rabbi?, shame !!!
21. It may or may not be immodest, it depends.
Traditionally women have been housewives and homemakers. Responsibilities in the home should be able to be taken care of especially with children, it wouldn't be appropriate to have them go astray or be misguided. Fulfilling the roles that would be considered deemed Jewish and being able to manage a role in helping the nation reach the optimum state for the glory of the Lord and the good of the people, public participation in government, election processes, panels, teaching, etc. would be acceptable. Women should be contented in all modesty and decency. Some women would rather be stay at home mothers and/or wives. On the other hand, there are those with the conviction enough to challenge a man, just as equals, in leadership roles. The same would apply for a man. Rational answers are always better than irrational ones.
22. Rabbis' Mental Health
Nathan ,   Italy   (10.30.12)
A periodical mental health check up should be compulsory for orthodox rabbis over 45. There is evidence they are not able to control their sexual drive and rage as well.
23. Sarah, oh Sarah, where are you? All of Israel is wating!
Edithann ,   USA   (10.30.12)
24. Aviner Defames G-d and the Torah
meir elazar   (10.30.12)
When one thinks for a moment of the greatness of all of G-d's creation, one cannot help but be overwhelmed. Look at the human body, the complexity of the world and universe. In the body look at all the brains, bones, organs, senses, digestive system, reproductive system, etc and give meaning to the morning blessings "Sh-Natan Li Kol Tzorchee". thank G-d for your greatest gift and don't forget the less fortunate. Visit and comfort the sick and handicapped. When one looks at certain sports such as gymnastics, one may see true beauty of what the body can achieve. Look at the beauty of motion and form. It is very clear that Aviner has lost touch with the Torah and G-d and instead is tainted by his sick perspective and sexual neuroses. He ignores the important roles that women played in the Torah and only views them from a perspective of control, subjugation, and sexual exploitation.
25. Women posters?
Miriam ,   London England   (10.30.12)
For a women's issue the posters are mostly men. Could that mean women have higher priorities than to be elected to the Knesset?
26. #24: "He .... only views them from a perspective of control,
Runner1983 ,   USA   (10.31.12)
subjugation, and sexual exploitation." I agree, but would have reached your conclusion in perhaps a different way.
27. At least ONE Rabbi we can respect !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (11.01.12)
Sadly we don't hear many rabbanim talk as he does . Aviner , yossef and co don't deserve to be respected , they only distance the Jews from Judaism .
28. #27 Charles - Agreed but I would go further
meir elazar   (11.01.12)
It is time to return to the Torah, the core of Judaism, and dump Rabbinic McCarthyism and the Jewish Stockholm Syndrome. Just like the Romans first destroyed Israel and the Temple in the period of 65-70 CE and later hijacked Christianity at the Council of Nicea gutting all Jewish components out of it converting it to a new form of Paganism, the Rabbis also created a new Religion converting Judaism from a stationary religion based on ceremonies and traditions at specific locations in Israel to a portable religion that they could take to the Diaspora. On the one hand, they may have saved Judaism but on the other, they created a new religion focused on their agendas.
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