Separation from Palestinians crucial
Ami Ayalon
Published: 13.11.12, 10:52
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1. There already is a two-state solution
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (11.13.12)
Jordan's population is majority ersatz "Palestinian." The ersatz "Palestinians" can go live there -- the ones that illegally squat on the West Bank are Jordanian citizens to begin with. They can rename Jordan whatever they like. Israel should not cede a single millimeter of territory to violent terrorists. The prospect of a tiny Israel, squeezed between violent Gazans and violent West Bankers is simply not tenable. Moreover, no one believes the ersatz "Palestinians'" bleating and false promises of wanting peaceful co-existence. They are interested in eliminating Israel. Keep Judea and Samaria, repatriate the Arabs there to Jordan.
2. Sarah B. from USA
Jarda ,   Czech Republic   (11.13.12)
What do you mean by "repatriation"? The same like in Lydda?
3. Too Late, Too Many Settlements
Mark of Lewiston ,   USA   (11.13.12)
Netanyahu has won on this issue. Better reconcile to a single state with some guaranteed rights for everybody. Palestinians won't be ethnically cleansed. Neither will the settlers after the way the Disengagement was purposefully botched. Jordan has no infrastructure to handle one or two or three million refugees, nor do they have any incentive to cooperate. As for Gaza, Begin said no and Egypt has no reason to take it or cooperate either. Likud and Labor created the circumstances on the ground without concern for consequences.
4. what garbage!!!!
ari ,   Jerusalem   (11.13.12)
5. Jarda from Czech Republic
Steve Klein   (11.13.12)
How many ethnic Germans forcibly expelled from the Czech Republic after the second world war were repatriated to Czech Republic?
6. Completely bogus argument
Canuck   (11.13.12)
First: the number of Arabs in PA has been inflated by PA census. It includes exiles and it double counts Arabs in some areas like Jerusalem. This has been proved by demographic experts such as Yoram Ettinger. Second: the same advocates of two states are often in favor of admitting "refugees" from Africa and elsewhere, never mind how many. Hundreds of thousands? Sure, if their lives are in peril at home, they say. So these two-states advocates are not even consistent in their principle of "Jewish state". Ask them whether they are in favor of removing the 200,000 plus PA infiltrators now living this side of the Green Line. Of course not. They are in favor of preferential treatment (affirmative action) for Arabs living in Israel, again betraying their alleged "pro-Jewish Israel" stance. Their arguments in favor of Two States are all bogus, folks.
7. Two-state solution
Albrecht Klein ,   Germany   (11.13.12)
Do you really think, there will be peace if you give half of your land to the Arabs? No, they will also want the other half (and kill you as a bonus).
8. The guy doesn't mention Jerusalem ???
Ari ,   Jerusalem   (11.13.12)
Why should settlers retire? In all peace converstaions Israel has demanded staying with somewhat 5 to 10% of territories beyond Green line. Resolution 242 of the security council reads Secure Borders not 1967 Borders, which is in accodance with that 10% same a the Jordan Valley. Israel should anexed what it considers the spirit of the resolution 242 and Build a barrier with the new borders. Jerusalem had an International status on the 1947 Partition Plan which the arabs did not accept and then in 1948 when the Jordanians took the WB and East Jerusalem and anexed it making a Jewish cleansing. So if it was good for Jordan why not for israel.? Jerusalem was never a capital for an arab country while it was the City founded by David and the city that has been in our heart and our prayers all the time. Jerusalem was never divided along it's history execpt when Jordan did it in 1948. Jerusalem should be anexed by Israel giving freedom of religion to all it's inhabitants and all the people of the world. Neverheless Arabs that live in Jerusalem should become Israelies or go to Palestine or Jordan. The Israeli arabs should Pledge aligiance to to the state of Israel or leave, no more 5th columns. In Short Israel should make an unilateral move and make the 2 state soluction, no more talks no more nonsenses Make a barrier where it thinks it should be the border. Anex Jerusalem and also the Golan. Make a higher Barrier in Gaza. As for the Palestinians they should look for economic ties with Jordan and not Israel, including infrastructure such as electricity and water. No more work for Palestinians in Israel. In Gaza they should make a palestinian state or be absorved by Egypt which it would be more natural, and aslo cut ties w ith Israel no more infrastructure from Osrael let it come from Egypt including medical services.
9. Thank god Romney won
Chalomi   (11.13.12)
Now with Obama gone and the Mubarak regime more firmly than ever in power we can build on our formal alliances with turkey and the maronites in Lebanon and take final steps toward a greater Judea. Thank hashem that Begin defeated the treasonous hagana and the socialist ben Gurion in 1948! imagine if Apikorsim and Arabs were allowed to sit on our ruling Sanhedrin and women could attend university like they did before we closed down Hebrew University. Baruch hashem, Baruch hashem. Long live hamelech Kahane.
10. Pals use terrorism for attention but no solution possible
Sam ,   Canada   (11.13.12)
The Palestinians use terrorism to keep the world's attention but that attention is useless because their refusal to accept a Jewish majority Israel makes any solution impossible. It's in Israel's interest to leave the 2 state solution on the table so that everyone should know that Palestinians have a way out of the status quo. However, Israel is not going to wait around for the Palestinians and the longer Palestinians wait the worse the deal they get. No one is going to give them a 1 state solution.
11. To Mark of Lewiston
David Perez   (11.13.12)
80% of the settlers live in a territory encompassing roughly 5% of the West Bank. Therefore, it would be very easy to proceed to a land swap so that Israel can annex the largest settlements without penalizing the Palestinians. There is no need to talk about a one-state solution. Only professionnal distotionists such as Ilan Pappe pretend that a two-state solution is not feasible.
12. separation
Iletzter ,   TA- Israel   (11.13.12)
I have a better idea. Let send all the Jews back to Poland. The contents of this article is total foolishness and a waste of time. We need separation. We do not need two states. They need live in an autonomous environment- however no need to give them a state. If they don't like it, they can go to Jordan. No need for negotiation- The day we said they are our partners - that was the our Nakbah. we should have always claimed sovereignity but with total separation and let them have autonomy. Their going to the UN should be considered an act of war.
13. Yes to 2 states - Jordan and Israel
The Elephant ,   In the Room   (11.13.12)
Once Jordan becomes a real democracy, the Hashemite minority regime will be no more. The country can then revert to its original name and identity. Problem Solved!
14. Since Israel is NOT part of the US, Obama will not be able
Dov ,   Israel   (11.13.12)
to "force" Israel into accepting anything.
15. We Are Victorious Emissaries Here In Judea And Samaria
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (11.13.12)
Which is OUR land. We will continue to grow and build and plant and thrive- as we have done; for the good of the nation. We will not have a repeat of the debacle of the "Disengagement" from Gaza (multiplied tenfold or more), which by every measure, was an abject failure.
16. Israel Free 2Self-destruct w/o Our USA
Jersey Jew ,   New Jersey, USA   (11.13.12)
Always remember, you reap what you sow. And always apply Judaic values ... Also, think about a USA President Obama for 4 years free of the Israel lobby? Economically & militarily distressed USA? Secretary of State Susan Rice? Security Head Samantha Powers? Secretary of State John Kerry? Our US UN representative? Marginalized Lindsay Graham focused on US immigration? Arab Spring? USA values and interests? And importantly, 2016 President Hillary Clinton? Always remember, you reap what you sow! Israel ur on ur own, please please be smart and always think about ur not-so-distant future, not simply the next few years ...
17. The pseudo-official Palestinian Position....
Muayyad ,   Palestine   (11.13.12)
The way Palestine sees it, if the 2-State solution doesn't give us FREEDOM, and DIGNITY, then we will not sign - period. Here are the red lines: 1- Arab-majority Palestine once spanned from River to Sea. The acceptance of Israel over 78% of the Mandate territory is itself a huge compromise. 2- The basis of an agreement is the 1967 boundary, with minor agreed-upon land swaps. 3- Alquds (Jerusalem) is the capital, cultural, and economic centre of Palestinian life and identity. There will be NO 2-state solution EVER without East Jerusalem reverting to Arab, Muslim & Christian rule. Palestinian sovereignty over East Jerusalem is non-negotiable, unless you want to negotiate West Jerusalem which hosted Palestinian people and property prior to the Nakba. 4- A just and lasting solution to the refugees (myself included) - The RIGHT of return is holy. It can be exercised or converted including any of the following: Actual return, resettlement in the West Bank/Gaza, resettlement in host countries, or resettlement in third party countries. 5- The Jordan Valley is integral to the Palestinian State and its natural, historical contiguity with the Arab nations. 6- Crossings into/out of Palestine, including land crossings, airports, seaports, shall be controlled by sovereign Palestine and subject to its laws, and its laws alone. The sovereignty of the Palestinian nation is not up to negotiations, there are absolutely no precedents for half-sovereignty anywhere in the world. We will not be taken for a ride, and the illegal occupation will not put on a new coat. NEVER. 7- Jewish settlers are more than welcome to stay in the Palestinian state, and are even encouraged to contribute their entrepreneurship towards building the Palestinian economy. This is only possible if they give up terrorism, so-called price tag tactics, and and swear allegiance to the State of Palestine and its constitution. 8- Demilitarization: Armament is not our first priority but nation-building. We will not, however, sit like ducks in the event of further Zionist agression and infringement on our state. Therefore, we can only accept disarmament if it is a) temporary; 2) substituted by NATO, or Arab forces defending our borders and keeping the peace. Are you ready to negotiate? Your crazed leaders would not even open proposal envelopes. We are NOT counting on you even negotiating in good faith since we all know the purpose of the Oslo Accords was to defraud Palestine and giving a cover to the illegal colonization activities. We have our own national program and agenda, and that includes pursuing Israel in international courts should it continue on this self-defeating path of expansionism and apartheid!
18. No, it is not the solution.
Uzziel   (11.13.12)
Even the most brainless leftist, except the suicidal ones, knows that the invention of a fakestinian state will give legitimacy to their narrative. And their narrative is that the Land of Israel belongs to the waqf, therefore the jews must be wiped out of the map and out of the existence. Why the leftist traitors want to give the terrorist arabs an untouchable power base is beyond my understanding.
19. I seond Sara B: Jordan River is a perfect border
trump ,   eurabia   (11.13.12)
whose existence is supported by our Holy Thorah and 1923 San Remo compulsory and still valid clauses !
20. The author is very mis-informed. All demographic experts say
Esq62 ,   Israel   (11.13.12)
there is absolutely no demographic threat today. AND it would be further reduced if Israel adopts the Levy report and opens Judea & Samaria to Israeli law and open Jewish building. Certain people with selfish motives are creating this illusion and falsely saying there is a real threat. Ask Yoram Ettinger.
21. #5
Jarda ,   Czech Republic   (11.13.12)
App. 3 mil. Are you going to repeat that?
22. #5 Absolutely irrelevant...
esse ,   --   (11.13.12)
....nothing makes us look as stupid as people who make the "BUT WHAT ABOUT???'' arguments as in number 5. Who cares what happened in other parts of the world in situations and contexts that were TOTALLY DIFFERENT from ours? Even if the situations were EXACTLY the same, do two wrongs make a right? If somebody else ethnically cleansed another people, does this give us the right to? Do you really think the world would stand by and let this happen? How stupid are you? The year is 2012 and the world is a different place than after WWII and, most importantly, none of these past examples is like ours where the people we want to screw over have hundreds of millions of supporters in the region! Read the former sentence again and let it sink in. We have to stop being so stupid and drop these ignorant arguments or else we will lose our state.
23. #1 - REALITY check for Sarah
spyguy ,   seattle usa   (11.13.12)
The reality you are incapable of understanding is the non-Jews that are currently living between the Jordan River and the Med Sea ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE no matter how much you huff and puff. If Israel tries to remove them (by force or whatever) the world will come down on Israel like a million bombs and the US will be powerless to protect Israel. You may think that you can ignore the other 6.5 BILLION humans on earth but if you push them too hard Israel will get summarily squashed. The belligerent minority ALWAYS gets squashed. It is time for SANITY in Israel that can find a solution both sides can live with otherwise Israel's days are numbered.
24. 20 Yoram Etinger numbers were false and to proven as false.
Eitan ,   Naagan Charod   (11.13.12)
The demographic threat is alive and kicking, even Bib melech Israel is aware and afraid of them. The write idd well informed, knows Israel inside and out served in high ranks in the IDF , realist who knows his stuff unlike most of the talkbacks here who are delusional keaybord warriors who lives in overseas and visit Israel at best every once in while. To those warriors - think and double thing before you criticize a hero that done for Israel more than all of you conbined be able to do in 1000 years
25. # 21 and #22: It was NOT a wrong.
Steve   (11.13.12)
esse, why do you say it was a wrong? The German people embraced Nazism by and large with a few heroic and notable exceptions. Ethnic German minorities in the Sudetenland led by Konrad Henlein embraced Nazism by and large. Germany was the aggressor. Germany initiated war against peaceful neighboring countries, as did Israel's Arab neighbors in the several wars of Arab aggression against Israel. Ethnic Arabs living in Israel supported and took part in these wars. It is was not a wrong for Poland, Czechoslovakia, Russia, Romania, Hungary, etc. to expel their ethnic German citizens after the war. Please, learn your history.
26. #21 and #22: Potsdam Agreement
Steve   (11.13.12)
"The Potsdam Agreement was the Allied (UK, US, USSR) plan of tripartite military occupation and reconstruction of Germany (after the war)...." #12) Orderly transfer of German Populations Expulsion of Germans after World War II The Three Governments, having considered the question in all its aspects, recognize that the transfer to Germany of German populations, or elements thereof, remaining in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, will have to be undertaken. They agree that any transfers that take place should be effected in an orderly and humane manner.
27. Will All Palis be sent to Palestine when it is stablished?
Arabs out of Israel   (11.13.12)
if not, what is the use of a future Arab-Moslem Palestine?
28. #19 - Balfour, San Remo and everythign else
spyguy ,   seattle usa   (11.13.12)
are completely NULL AND VOID. The ONLY agreement that is ever valid is one where BOTH SIDES agree it is in force. The second one side says no, the agreement ceases to exist. From the day those agreements were proposed they were invalid because from day one the most important side, the Arabs said no. The Brits had no standing to agree to anything. So you can shout about them all you want but the rest of the world considers them dead and buried and there is no court in the world that will even consider them. This is an example of the stupid stuff that Israelis believe as pointed out by #22.
29. Jewish and arab population
Istvan ,   BUDAPEST HUNGARY   (11.13.12)
must be separated. The only way to avoid further, endless conflicts. In the east mediterranean basin, christian greeks and muslim turks lived together for centuries. The result was permanent hostility with terrible blood bathes. But after the WWI. the international community - not the impotent UNO, but the Nation's Alliance - decided. All greeks from Anatolia to Greece, and all turkish from Hellas to Asia Minor. Since then a relative peace exists there among the two nations. Same solution in the ME !
30. Seperation does not mean land surrender
BH ,   Iowa   (11.13.12)
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