Opinion
What are Orthodox Jews afraid of?
Rabbi Naftali Rothenberg
Published: 14.11.12, 11:15
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1. Believe whatever you want to believe
(11.14.12)
but that doesn't mean that it's Judaism.
2. Reform Judaism and Israel
PK ,   Northern Israel   (11.14.12)
I believe the reason for the lack of mainstream acceptance of Reform Judaism in Israel is a simple one: it is just easier to be a secular Jew here. A Jew in Israel can lead a secular life, not believe in god, eat what they want, do whatever they want on Shabbat and holidays, yet still maintain a strong sense of Jewish identity and pride and a connection to Judaism in all its guises. Indeed it is almost impossible not to. A secular or non-religious Jew in the USA (or any other country you care to name) does not have this luxury. Unless they are happy with complete assimilation, disconnection and disassociation (which many Jews are raised to fear) then Reform Judaism might seem like a comfortable compromise, where a secular lifestyle and a connection to Judaism (without the Oy Oy Oy of religious dogma) are not incompatible. Although it might be hard for many Israelis to relate to (especially the orthodox), I believe that Reform Judaism should be regarded as a positive thing for diaspora Jews. This 'my way or the highway' attitude shown by many in the orthodox community of Israel is counter-productive, and only serves to push seculars and non-religious Jews further away from Israel.
3. No discrimination in The Camps
Astronaut ,   ME, USA   (11.14.12)
Reform-Orthodox- Conservative- Haredi-Kosher-Non-kosher - - - in The Camps, we were all "equal." Jews of all factions were untied, at last, in the ovens; were rendered into the same bars of soap. We are our own worst enemy.
4. "Reform" Is Not Judaism. It Is A New Religion.
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim   (11.14.12)
5. Not Everything That Is About Torah Is Of Torah.
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim   (11.14.12)
6. Reform Judaism Drifting away from Judaism
Miriam Woelke ,   Jerusalem   (11.14.12)
Reform Judaism has started drifting away from the principles of Judaism a long time ago. Now it is as a different religion with its own Sidur and "Hashgacha". If we all became Reform, Judaism would no longer continue to exist.
7. They are NOT Jews
Shalom ,   Ashdod, IL   (11.14.12)
Reform do not beleive in one fundamental fact which is that the dedad will rise again. They do not beleive it. They intermarry freely, do not keep Shabbat, do not even know what is Shulhan Aruch so how can anyone call them Jews. Let them call whatever they beleive in by another name other than Jewish. If the truth hurts, then tough luck
8. The reformed movement ...
Wise Saba ,   Western Negev   (11.14.12)
has started their own religion & must not be allowed to gain a foothold here.
9. Reform is an insult to Judaism
Sane ,   Manchester   (11.14.12)
Reform by it's very definition came along and made a mockery of the existing 'Orthodox' Judaism. It attempts to argue that Judaism is wrong and their 'new, improved' version is correct. Of course followers of Judiasm are no happier at the new spin-off religion than the older one (Christianity), which at least has the decency to call it something else.
10. #9 sane
Michael ,   Haifa   (11.14.12)
The ultra orthodox who regard the orthodox as non Jews..the orthodox who regard the Conservatives as non Jews...the Conservatives who regard the Reformists as non Jews....they are all an insult to humanity, and you call yourself sane ?
11. Reform are the remaining connection the old religion.
Michael ,   California, USA   (11.14.12)
No matter what ever happened in Judaism, it always divided the community. I think the only uniting element in Judaism is Culture, the secular part. Realistically speaking, religion is completely irrelevant, no matter from where it comes to the modern Jew. However, if you count those who retain anything from the old religion in the U.S., the Reform carry the banner. The Orthodox ere a passing element, a relic. The largest branch of Judaism in America are the Secular, the same as in Israel. Our culture unites us, secular Israel unites us, nothing else.
12. You no playa da game, you no make-a da rules.
Dr. L. Brnd ,   San Diego, USA   (11.14.12)
Reform Judaism, and the more extreme "There-Is-No-God" offshoots, Reconstructionist and Humanistic "Judaism", have do diverved and divorced themselves from 3000 years of Jewish tradition, that they can not claim a place at the table, sharing power and control with the mainstream orthodox Judaism of Israel. Extremist anti-Israel haredi sects like naturei karta and the Satmar are similarly classified - they are offshoots of Judaism, like Islam and Christianity. They have set themselves apart from the rest of us, and have no right to whine discrimination. The Reform Movement itself admits that the Holocaust disproved its entire theological premise, that being more like "everybody else" would insure acceptance. So what are they really trying to accomplish, especially with a 47% intermarraige-assimilation rate?
13. Judiasm
mike ,   Seattle USA   (11.14.12)
Jews of all streams and all denominations need to realize that we have much more in common than what divides us. There is no such thing as a good Jew or a bad Jew based on how observant you are. If you are born to a Jewish mother, or decide to convert to Judiasm you are a Jew, and you should be welcomed into any synagogue. I go to all types of synagogues, orthodox, conservative, reform, and everything in between and I am struck by how much they have in common. We must stop being so devisive and judgmental of each other. No matter how observant a Jew is, there will always be another Jew telling him he is doing something wrong. This has got to stop. We are not that numerous that we can be devisive. We are all Jews. All Jews must respect all Jews.
14. orthodox don't unite with reform
Ephraim ,   Tapuah   (11.14.12)
In no place and in no time, no Orthodox Jews have ever wished to unite, renoncile, or in any way recognize Reform Judaism. We are legitimately afraid that you will distort the Torah, and give the many non-religious, and thus ignorant of religion Jews who live in Israel your false, easier, more pleasent on the outside Judaism, and they won't notice they've been duped until too late.. if ever.
15. Nothing so needs reforming as ...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (11.14.12)
Reform Jews habits
16. Almost everything negative said here about...
Avishai ,   Tel Aviv   (11.14.12)
Almost everything negative said here about Reform Judaism can also be said about Neturei Karta, radical Lithuanian "Judaism", radical Heredim... "it's a new religion and not Judaism"
17. when I see these comments above...
Ze'ev ,   Nbg, germany   (11.14.12)
than I feel that the arabs are not the greatest danger, than I feel such narrow minded commenters are the greatest threat.
18. Judaism is about mitzvot and Shulchan Aruj
TZVI ,   ISRAEL   (11.14.12)
Anything else is something else
19. Haradi Judaism Drifting away from Judaism
Ethan Schwartz ,   Eilat   (11.14.12)
Haradi Judaism has started drifting away from the principles of Judaism a long time ago. Now it is as a different religion with its own Sidur and "Hashgacha". If we all became Haradi , Judaism would no longer continue to exist.
20. Not Judaism
Jake in Jerusalem ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (11.14.12)
I don't know anyone who is "fighting against Reform Jews", even if Rabbi Prof. Rothenberg says there are such people. The Reform movement has been working very hard to dissociate itself from Judaism for many years and doesn't need our help. Nevermind Shabbat, Kashrut, intermarriage, homsexuality and checkbook conversions, Reform clergy ROUTINELY officiate at weddings IN CHURCHES - and with the full blessing of the Reform leadership. I'm sure that there are some lovely weddings in churches, but you can't convince me that the people who officiate there are JEWISH clergymen. Reform is quickly becoming another religion - which is precisely what so many have predicted long ago.
21. #9, envious of the "older one" aren't you? Surpassed you far
Michael ,   California, USA   (11.14.12)
22. No discrimination; just definition
Meir ,   Modiin   (11.14.12)
The author has it all wrong; it has nothing to do with discrimination but simply a matter of definition. Not everything that Jews believe can be called Judaism. Jews for J. or Jewish Communists may be fine people and deserve all the rights as citizens of any democratic state but their religion or ideology has nothing to do with Judaism and so must not be recognized as one of its branches. (There are many branches in Orthodoxy itself and they all recognize each other; so this is not because of any intolerance or narrow-mindedness; simply a clarity of definition what Judaism is.) Reform is no better than Christianity in this respect; it is not Judaism, period; and it's just as true in America as it is here. The Reform Jews cab be fine people and love Israel, and they are welcome to do that, just like Evangelical Christians love Israel and we appreciate their support. Thank you, just don't call your tradition Judaism; one has nothing to do with the other.
23. 19 Ethan,Extreme diseases ask for...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (11.14.12)
extreme remedies. The day extreme Secular will step towards the Golden Middleway, Haredi Rabbis might cautiously losen the harsh measures aimed to protect their flocks.
24. 11 Tell me dear Michael,how does...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (11.14.12)
Western culture unite Jews ? Israel unites Jews? I think a great deal of Jews that live abroad are distantly interested in Israel.
25. What I'M afraid of.
Ian ,   Newcastle upon Tyne   (11.14.12)
What worries me is that these Reform 'Jews',so many of them not actually Jewish but with family loyalties to non-Jews,will gain control of the State of Israel.They'll either move Israel away from being a Jewish State or simply surrender under the misplaced belief that the Islamists will reform into nice people committed to peaceful co-existence. THREE CHEERS FOR ISRAEL!!!
26. Only seculars can secure Israel
Itamar ,   Ramat Gan   (11.14.12)
It is amazing that every religion in the world, splinters itself in dissident groups, every group claiming he is the only true one representing the religion, there was even a time in Jewish history that the Karaite were on the verge of becoming the main dominant group, then at another period the mitnagdim considerd the Hassidim as non Jews, the hassidim considers the Mizrahi as heretics and so on, only the secular are the most stable,they build Israel, and only they can keep it alive
27. 18-Mitzvot and Halakhah, yes. Shulhan Arukh, not by
Dati Leumi Jew ,   Israel   (11.14.12)
Teimanim nor any followers of Rambam, who abide by his Mishnah Torah. It would be more correct, historically and halakhically, to declare Judaism is about mitzvot and Mishnah Torah, NOT Shulkhan Arukh nor Reform, nor Conservativek, nor Ultra-Orthodox.
28. #24 ORA, #26 answered you very well.
Michael ,   California, USA   (11.15.12)
Culture comes from Israel to the present era Jews, try to understand this. The country is what unites us while religion mostly breeds discord. The difference between Orthodox and Reform streams is obvious: it is impossible to coexist with the Orthodox so they will need to go away. Reform and Kipa Sruga are OK, for now, as long as they mind their own business.
29. Everything, of course.
Josh   (11.15.12)
The very nature of controlling a subject group is that you alienate them from outside influences. The best way to do this is to make them revile, fear and hate outsiders. Hencer Israels continued bad conduct in the Jewish world.They think they are persecuting lowly outsiders when in fact they are only being subjugated. Ultimate firars. On another note, reform Jews put Jesus in their Tanach comments?!. Bahahah. No loyalty to Torah while touting Torah. Friar vs friar. Dev 13 rejects?
30. fundamentalists and everyone else
iselin ,   Oslo, Norway   (11.15.12)
The fundamentalists think that they are always right because no ibe can anyone deny a literal interpretation of religious texts. However, times change, and guess what - some people actually use the brains given to them by god (according to the fundamentalists) or mother nature and question said texts. Hey, even the fundamentalists avoid those laws about stoning for sins. Why can't they see/accept that the seculars just modernize those texts a little bit more, and they certainly make a religion with some odd bits seem more normal to the rest of the world.
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