How to break the cycle
Avraham Sela, Oren Barak
Published: 25.11.12, 11:00
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1. Easier to return Sela and Barak to sanity
Ilan   (11.25.12)
Should Israel strive for Egypt or Syria grade stability. Much easier if you'd just take your medicine and stopped being delusional
2. Huh?
John   (11.25.12)
Israeli policy does not call for a 'military victory' over Hamas. Israeli policymakers only use Israel's military instrument as a way to - generally speaking - counter armed force with armed force, in order to halt the violence. It's not about victory. It's about keeping the border quiet. The policy actually calls for keeping Hamas in power because every other option is far worse. IMHO, Israel would help build up a state, but not under fire. Hamas must alter its political behavior if they want Israel to assist in building a Palestinian state
3. Right. But what about Iran?
Noa   (11.25.12)
I don't think any of us believes we are fighting Palestinians. Ps are just Iran's pawns. If Iran is down economically, we'll have a chance of peace.
4. Evil doesn't stay for long
Salma ,   Palestine   (11.25.12)
Prof. Avraham Sela , Palestine is not like Egypt , Lebanon, Jordan etc, the issue is here and the conflict is between your "state" and between the Palestinian people , its not between you and Gaza as you try to claim, Palestinians are not victims in need of aid, they are an occupied & oppressed people in need of freedom.. There will be no peace in the Middle East without a strong Palestinian state, and without the right of return , no matter how long it takes Palestine will be free , we have a dream and we will do everything to make the dream come true, hope you will read my comment , have a nice day sir.
5. Sela & Barak advocating "nation building" adventurism
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   www.netzarim.co.il   (11.25.12)
America hasn't proven, at great expense in treasure and blood, that it doesn't work? Even Americans are realizing it doesn't work. GAZANS have to do it. Until they love their children more than they hate Jews...
6. Democratic elections?
Brana Lobel ,   Israel   (11.25.12)
I don't think you gentlemen understand what democratic elections truly are. They don't exist in the Middle East, not even truly in Israel. Rulers and leaders rule in the Middle East by crackdown and intimidation and sheer power, whether they are so-called legitimate, which are those primarily raised into power by the British, or illegitimate, empowered by military means. Motives behind "voting" are suspect. At the point when a so-called helper of Israel is no longer crucified in Yemen, as happened three months ago and hardly received press, then you can talk about "helping" Arab fringe power groups. Til then, anything other than basic exchange is going to be turned into weapons and destruction.
7. Should Have Finished The Job
Moshe ,   Givataim   (11.25.12)
The only way of preventing the rocket shooting from happen again, would have been, if e would have finished the job. The problem with this is that it requieres leaders that have the courage to stand up, and do what is the best for the country and the people. Until the HAMAS is not destoried and the people of Gaza are nit freed from this terror organization that is also fighting their own people, there will be no peace. And from us there should be no MERCY in case that HAMAS is breaking the "peace agreement".
8. So perhaps delivering Iron Dome to Hamas 'll be "breaking c?
ab   (11.25.12)
ycle "? "Stable states" have defence,air defenes too ,so it's better Israel arms them so they'll have something to lose..
9. If you want stability
Istvan ,   BUDAPEST HUNGARY   (11.25.12)
help to create a confederative state for Gaza arabs and Sinai bedouins. Egypt is the present of the Nile we learned in the school. But where is the Nile east of the Wadi el Arish line ? British colonialists invented the border to defend the Suez canal from germans and turks. And it is called "international border ". Gaza arabs and Sinai bedouins just like Birmingham englishman and Manchester englishmen. Is there border between them ?
10. I am impressed by this article.
Bruno ,   Los Angeles   (11.25.12)
Wow, I cannot believe what I'm reading. Finally, a writer who makes sense. I applaud this guy's thinking. Yes, stability leads to stability and violence begets violence. Israel's aggression in the past has brought nothing but destruction to the Palestinians and maybe less destruction to Israel but instability and a lack of security. I think we're finally achieving mutual respect and deterrence. I see hope finally.
11. '"Stable country"?
Shalom ,   U.S.A.   (11.25.12)
Then entire arab world is in turmoil, violence unlawfulness, anarchy, civil wars and terror organizations dominate their societies. Not only in recent years but since the years of their "prophet". They never lived in peace, their intention is to dominate the entire world. One more insane idea from a leftist columnist.
12. Absolutely Absurd
eliwap ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (11.25.12)
It is not for Israel to decide for the Palestinians. The Palestinians need to decide for themselves. Unless the authors are suggesting that Israel retake the Strip militarily throw out Hamas and reconstitute their governance. Absolutely absurd reasoning.
maurice ,   yehuda shomron   (11.25.12)
your reasoning is flawed because you assume that they want to have a state, but this is completely wrong. hamas doesn't care running a state or a garbage banthoustan. they want war. they want confrontation with israel. if they really had wanted a state, they would have obtained it at many opportunities. the root of the problem is education. their education for hatred and manipulation by other arab states.
14. Oren Barak and Sela
David E.Y. Sarna ,   Teaneck   (11.25.12)
In the Yeshivot of yesteryear, it was recognized that the roshei yeshivah did not make pronouncements on practical matters, a task left to the Geonim. Sad that Barak and Sela don't recognize this necessary fundamental separation, and think they are equipped to pontificate on life and death matters where academic credentials are no preparation. In other words, please stop talking.
15. Asinine Article!!!
Taz Man ,   USA   (11.25.12)
The true reality, of the situation, is one can't live in peace with those who are sworn to kill them--period! Islam is evil to its core; it's demonic in nature, and this very essence seeks Israel's destruction. All-out war is coming, the military option is the only one that the Muslim savages understand. The assumption that force won't work is bogus, especially, when Israel fights with one hand tied behind its back. The coming wars will see Israel's (and their God's) true might. The Muslims will be devastated; Islam will die! There will be a seven-year false treaty signed after these coming wars. At the end of this false treaty, Israel's Messiah (Yeshua) returns and saves the promised remnant of scripture; God's grace is finally realized and accepted by the Jews (justification by faith only...apart from the Law). Faith in the only Son of God--Jesus Christ! God bless Israel and His Jerusalem!!! A Christian Zionist
16. Peace will only come...
Jake Stone ,   USA   (11.25.12)
...when Israel's true Messiah returns (Yeshua) at His 2nd Coming! They will see the One whom they have pierced (and rejected). God bless Israel; praying for the peace of Jerusalem!
17. Your analysises are failures !.
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (11.25.12)
Islam and Socialism will never live in peace with Israel in the longer run. And your solution for Gaza is contradicted by the Word of HASHEM regarding this - Isaiah 11. 14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall despoil them of the east together. They shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab, and the children of Ammon shall obey them. Your Doctor and Proffeseur degrees of International Relations regarding Israels Relations, are worth nothing, since they are not founded in and on the Word of HASHEM. There can never be Peace between Good and Bad !. Arn.Sweden.
18. Palestinian people doesn't exist
Raphael ,   Paris France   (11.25.12)
Even the title of this article is stupid. "How to break the cycle". There is no cycle ! What cycle ? There is one fact: Arabs in Gaza, Judea & Samaria and all other Arab countries close to Israel dream about only one thing: kill all the Jews and destroy Israel. That's their aim and you cannot change them. The only solution is to propose peace or war. If Arabs want peace, then take it. If they don't want, then you'll get war.
19. build Palestine, invest billions, there will be no war
Vitas ,   Raanana, Israel   (11.25.12)
I support this point of view. I think it is quit obvious that if you want to have peace with your neighbor you have to help him to get to your level, rather than build a 100 m high and 5 meter thick wall. Now, how do you do that? Is this discussed in the parliament of Israel? Are there governmental policies or non-governmental programs that aim at such things as capacity building, education of state&economic elites and broad masses in Palestine and Gaza, investment in infrastructure, industrial and educational projects in Gaza and Palestine? Are there attempts to co-operate with constructively thinking Palestinian groups and influential parties/individuals in order to support them to win over corrupt groups? Israel should invest and co-invest in Palestine together with USA, EU and World Bank (yes, despite the widespread corruption and misuse of funds). If that happens - and it is not a 1 year program - it should be 20 years program, that will raise a new generation of palestinians. If israel does that - put every year 10 billion USD (public and private funds) and attract another 40 billion (from USA, EU and other partners) for the next 5 years - it will change the whole situation. I wonder why does not this happen already?
20. It doesn't take a genius to realise this!
The following equasion applies to Gaza vs Israel: If you make my life misery = I'll make your life hell and intolerable with whatever means I have
21. above
moishe   (11.25.12)
fat chance. it is the Arab mentality that must change to peace and prosperity. dont hold your breath. some people like to suffer. it gives meaning to their miserable lives. I hope their next world is better for them. there wont be Jews there to hate.
22. Pure fantasy.
michael Pielet ,   israel   (11.25.12)
Here are two elites who are living in a world of fantasy that does not exist. When Rabin and Peres withdrew from Gaza in the 1990's they created an environment where are enemies could organize and arm themselves to effectuate their war of destruction against the Jews. The terrorists then turned their weapons on the Jewish communites of Gaza. Then Sharon under pressure and seeking the easy way out, destroyed the Jewish communites of Gaza. Following the terrorists with aid of iran filled the void and turned their weapons on the Jews living in proximity to the strip. Dayenu, it was not enough, then Mofaz, under pressure capitulated and gave up the {Philadelphia corridor facilitating the weaponization of the terrorists in Gaza. Bad, irresponsible decisions, with catastrohic results. Gaza will always be the vanguard of an arab nation of terror with the goal of destroying Israel and in the process murdering as many Jews as possible.
23. 2 nukes would make them dissapear.
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (11.25.12)
24. One minor problem
Shachar Shalev ,   Eilat   (11.25.12)
Right wing gov'ts have no interest in ending the violence. Periodical wars serve their ideological and electoral interests. The Likud and Hamas have a symbiotic relationship that keeps them both in power. Peace!? Are you crazy? That would be the end of their dreams and power.
25. The authors are insane
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (11.25.12)
Israel can nuke Gaza, Lebanon and pretty much anyone else it wants. That would be a pretty solid victory. It would rid the world of despicable terrorists, it will stabilize the region, and it will ensure that Israel will forever be a force to contend with. Somehow, I do not think that Ha'Shem would have entrusted the development of nuclear weapons to the Jewish people if he hadn't intended us to draw upon it when necessary. The authors seem to think that the Jewish people and the State of Israel should sit back and passively agree to be overrun by ignorant, primitive sewer rats. My educational credentials rival -- if not far exceed -- theirs, and I beg to differ. Yuval Neeman had it about right -- get rid of them before they get rid of you. Sometimes, it is necessary to step away from your moral certitude and sophistication and look at your enemy for what it really is. Gaze at the ersatz "Palestinians," and be honest about what you see. I'm all about an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. One Holocaust was more than enough for me.
26. Hamas & PA receive BILLIONS in foreign and Israeli aid...!!!
Stop the insanity of ,   Israeli leftists   (11.25.12)
Do they use ANY OF IT to build themselves a stable state? Do they use it to build roads, schools, hospitals, etc??? NO It all goes towards weapons, hatred education, the jidad (aka the resistance) or private European bank accounts of the leaders. Israel already provides them with water, electricity and food and pays the salaries of the "employees"" who wish us all dead. Israel needs to STOP all caretaking for irresponsible,corrupt and hatefilled Arabs and let them live in the beds they have made for themselves.
27. Is Syria & Egypt are "stable states"?
Ari Meir ,   Lod, Israel   (11.25.12)
LOL! Authors are BS.
28. I propose special tax onall Israelis:Confidence building tax
tom ,   tel aviv   (11.25.12)
29. OSTRICH hope! ISLAMISM forces IRREVERSIBLE Israeli victory!!
Jerry ,   The Netherlands   (11.25.12)
30. Dr. Barak's OP ED piece
Richard Brook ,   Austin, USA   (11.25.12)
Dr. Barak is confused. He things that a formal Palestinian government is going to help the situation. This is far to oversimplistic. A perfect example of why he is wrong is that Iran now has a strong central government and even he is unlikely to say that this government is anything but a total disaster for Israel. On the other hand, the Shah's Iranian government, while also a stable government by Barak's definition, had very friendly relations with Israel. Barak fails to explain in his piece why one stable government is a total disaster for Israel while the other was almost the polar opposite. So the situation with the Palestinians is far more complicated than what Barak writes. The fact is that under the current leadership in Gaza and the West Bank, any form of government they have is going to be very bad for Israel. No matter what they may say, their actions indicate that they are going to be very hostile towards Israel should become a formal country of any kind. The only export they will have will be missiles and bombs flying into Israel and they will be armed to the teeth. Do not let a desire for peace blind you to the reality of the situation. You can't make peace with Hitler. You can only defeat him and eliminate him and then replace him with someone like a Palestinian version of Konrad Adenauer.
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