Jewish Scene
Ban on female prayer at Kotel revisited
Associated Press
Published: 27.12.12, 07:20
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22 Talkbacks for this article
1. Even non-Jews may pray at Jews' holy sites
Dovy ,   Bnei Brak   (12.27.12)
but must dress and conduct themselves properly as befitting holy sites.
2. Non Orthodox women banned from praying at the Kotel?
Shulamith ,   Israel   (12.27.12)
The article is grossly misleading. No one is prohibited from praying at the Kotel. All women who seriously want to pray are allowed to do so, nonJewish or other women who are not adequately covered are assisted by being given scarves to cover areas of body not properly covered. Jews, Christians, and members of other faiths who come to Jerusalem are all allowed to pray - why not correctly state that the Non-Orthodox Jewish women want to dress and pray as men instead of women and report accurately?
3. Robinson's Arch
Joseph ,   London UK   (12.27.12)
There are several sections to the Western Wall. The Western Wall Plaza follows Minhag Jerusalem which is Orthodox, while Robinson's Arch section of the Western Wall was created to accommodate non-Orthodox services. Women at the Wall are fully aware of this arrangement, but choose to get publicity by offending women at the Western Wall Plaza. Regarding women wearing a man's tallis, see Deuteronomy 22.5, 'A woman shall not wear that which pertains to a man, neither shall a man put on woman's garments, for whosoever does such things is an abomination unto the L-rd your G-d.' In simple English some of the Women at the Wall are committing an abomination and then complaining when other women object.
4. Structure of Jerusalem Temple
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (12.27.12)
The Temple which stood on the Mount until its destruction had several courtyards. A courtyard for the Cohanim and Levites, one for the Israelite Men, another for Israelite Women and one Courtyard for the Gentiles who also worshipped G-d here. Like most holy places there were rules of purification and religious etiquette. Today in the Western Wall Plaza there are also rules and etiquette, such as women don't wear tefillin or a man's tallis and men don't dress like women. For those who don't like the rules the High Court created Robinson's Arch, another section of the Western Wall set aside for Reform and Liberal services. Throughout the Jewish world there are separate sites for Traditional and Reform services.
5. since when is the Kotel
avi ,   nyc   (12.27.12)
holy to people who oppose the Korban and call their twice a year "synagogues" "Temples".
6. A lack of requirement is not the same as a prohibition
Eric ,   Tel Aviv & NY   (12.27.12)
It would be nice if the Rabbis would actual look at the rules. A lack of requirement is not the same as a prohibition. Women are excused from religious obligations to enable them to have time to raise their families. If they have time to pray there is no reason that they should be prohibited from doing so let alone doing so in the required manner.
7. These ladies very HONESTS, that's Y BIGOTS R scared of them.
Big Mouth ,   On the face   (12.27.12)
8. Yidl mitn fidl
pink talit ,   Brazil   (12.27.12)
Women can use a talit, if they wish. This is Reform and Conservative. Not unfamiliar to me.
9. Women of the wall is provocation
I. Barr ,   USA   (12.27.12)
The rights of Jewish/Israeli women are not in damger. Their role in the Israeli society is well established and reflects their strength. Suppose a Muslim woman would want to enter a Mosque without Hijab? "Women of the Wall" is a small group of women with a goal to provoke the religious orthodox not advance women rights. They are used by USA radical left, female rabbis who protested Glenn Beck and critical of Israel to further demonize/de- legitimise the state and atempt to force their opinion on majority of Israeli. These mostly respect the desire of Jewish religious community. Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, female USA journalists visiting Islamic sites always wore a scarf, Hijab, out of respect to Islam. Why do these Israeli women want to specifically insult orthodox Jewry? Why do we in the USA force Catholic women to distribute birth control pills against their religious beliefs? Why criticism of Muhammad or Islam cannot be done? Why can a few atheists force their opinion on millions of Americans? Why can we not respect the religious wishes of the majority of Israeli and Americans regardless the abstract decisions of courts? Religious intolerance is a crime? These women invite 10.000 Orthodox to demonstrate against these women who want to feed them "a pound of pork". Live and let live?
10. what is this?
moriah ,   galut, galut   (12.27.12)
This is Pure attention -getting provocation. It's ego-driven, leftist incitement. and it is only the beginning because the Left are not satisfied just to ruin part of society, they want to ruin it all. Soon after there will be grievances for having special LGBT worship at the Kotel because otherwise it would be 'discrimination.'
11. The Chutzpa of the reform knows no bounds.
Jake ,   USA   (12.27.12)
The Kotel is an orthodox shul. They have the right to ban whatever they want. The reform have been historically anti-zionist for centuries, now they realize they're missing out on one of the greatest chapters in Jewish history, so they break onto the scene and start demanding that religious Israeli society conform to their convoluted ideologies. The chutzpah of the reform movement is unreal.
12. These women already have a place to pray
Chaim Ben Kahan ,   Efrat, Israel   (12.28.12)
Israel has already accomodated these women already, they have a spot further down on the Kotel, but that is not enough for them. They seemingly want to denigrate Jews who uphold Jewish traditions and are Torah observant. I am glad they arrested these women and they should be banned from the Kotel.
13. A Pink Tallit Maybe the answer
Rambo ,   Hawai   (12.28.12)
since no man would wear it. the distinction is drawn and a nylon strapped and cased tefillin also in pink square kippot for head cover, and Aida is your aunt
14. Halacha
Moshe ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.28.12)
Where Halacha says that a woman can not wear tallit? I still am looking for and can not find it
15. diversity
Aharon ,   Madrid, Spain   (12.28.12)
most Americans and many Europeans and Latin Americans are not Orthodox Jews. And we are millions. If Israel wants to be a new Iran, go ahead, and good luck!
16. This is crazy
Naftali ,   Seattle, WA   (12.28.12)
Women should be allow to wear tallit and chant hebrew prayers out loud, better yet, G-D loves men and women praying and chanting together. As far as the gender segregation no where in Torah says that genders must be segregated, and as far as modesty men and women should only dress modestly if you are worshiping at the site.
17. #15
avi ,   nyc   (12.28.12)
and in 1492 you all took communion.
18. To 12
Naftali ,   Seattle, WA   (12.28.12)
For you to insist on saying that women already have a place to pray and claim they are denigrating jewish traditions just personifies your ignorance about great things women. Remember no matter how secular or religious you are and how we all learn to observe Torah The Almighty is watching every single thing we do.
19. Interested in Judaism
mitch ,   Jerusalem   (12.28.12)
If praying with a talit or praying out loud at the Kotel is how some of these women connect to Judaism then let it be! We need people to be interested and connected to Judaism in their own personal ways for Judaism to remain relevant to them and possibly to others who are turned away by the sick behavior or religious nuts. These extra laws by the halakha nuts are as far away from Judaism as jupiter is from earth.
John ,   Europe   (12.29.12)
And I am not joking, see for yourself: ALL these allowed tallit: Isaac ibn Ghiyyat Rashi Rabbeinu Tam Zerachya ben Yitzhak Halevi of Lunel Rambam Rabbi Eliezer ben Yoel Halevi Rashba Aharon Halevi of Barcelona Rabbi Yisrael Yaaqob Alghazi Rabbi Yomtob ben Yisrael Alghazi Maharam was the 1st who proposed to remove tallit from women. Origin of today's forbiddence is Rema Orrah Hayim, 17:2, Mippah, where he states: "...although IT IS PERMITTED (my caps) for a women to wear tallit, it is yuhara (arrogance) for her to do it" It was Maharil and Targum Jonathan ben Uziel that forbade tallit for women. Therefor, it is kabbalistic movement that pressed for forbearance. Personally, I am proud for any women who chooses to wear tallit in front of Western Wall, for it shows that she is JEWISH with all her being and body and NOT AFRAID TO SHOW IT OUT LOUD!
21. 'only dress modestly if you are worshiping at the site'
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (01.02.13)
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying tourists who are not worshiping at the site need not dress modestly? When the Prophet said, 'What does G-d requireof you O man? But to do justice, to love goodness and to walk modestly with the L-rd your G-d,' he means modesty as a permanent characteristic, not something limited to when you worship.
22. Number 20. See for yourself. Where?
Joseph ,   London UK   (01.04.13)
You give a list of names but no specific references. Do you know how much Rashi or Rambam wrote? Most Sephardim follow Rambam's Code, but I don't see their women wearing men tzitzis. Ashkenazim follow the Rema who as you note says it is not acceptable for women to wear a man's tallis. You're unclear about tallis as a piece of cloth or tzitzit that go on the four corners of certain garments. If a woman wears tzitzit on the four corners of a suitable female syle fabric, that is quite different from a woman wrapping herself in a man's tallis.
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