CIA stats : Israel , 18 th 81,07 years . Poland ....78th with 76.25 years . Below many non European countries .....Says a lot . Maybe that's also a reason you fled Poland ?

OK. An exercise in imagination. Imagine a university auditorium, say 100 students capacity. Imagine a government that attempts to give equal educational opportunities to young people, and to achieve it introduces a scholarship program for deserving candidates from poorer, mainly rural parts of the country. Such candidates are to be given - preferentially - the privilege to enroll. But the program does not provide for enlarging the auditorium (there are no means for that). The number of seats in the auditorium does not change. In order to accommodate the new candidates the university's board of governors must choose how to manage the auditorium's capacity. It's obvious that some candidates could not be allowed to enroll, just to make place for the new comers. The answer is numerus clausus. In modern parlance - affirmative action. Whatever the name, if it is to work and equalize chances, the government has to introduce and use statistical categories such as minority, class, religion, even caste. Even sex. If it so happens that the students belonging to a minority systematically fill up say 70% of the auditorium's capacity, from the moment of the affirmative program's implementation on, the number of candidates belonging to that particular minority is going to be reduced. In some cases, drastically. In the case of Warsaw University numerus clausus did not exclude candidates belonging to the Jewish minority. It just limited their number to 10%, in proportion to that minority's size (3.5 million). Unjust? Perhaps. But thanks to that program, my father was able to enroll for law and obtain his degree. There appeared a sit for him in that auditorium, previously practically monopolized by the students coming from influential and well-to-do Warsaw Jewish families. The key word here is empowerment. Not antisemitism.

Forgot ta add that unlike Israel Poland exists and prosper without handouts ;) ,...

To give everyone an equal chance , make a entry exam , so the best of all will be accepted . Giving less gifted students a "chance" is not the best way . Why did non Jews not enroll in vaster quantities ? Did the univ favorise the inscription of Jews ? I don't think it . What i have i to think from your : ...coming from well to do and influential Warsaw Jewish families " That Jews were the Elite in Warsaw ? That they were the only who had influence or money ? Were there no well to do or influential non Jews in Warsaw ? What have i to think of what you wrote ? I have a picture at the Warsaw univ [ in 38 or 39 ] with a big "poster" in Polish [ i don't understand it , but it shows the mood there then ] : Zadamy Ghetta dla Zydow i obniizki oplati . Below it another :smerc Zydo-komunies .

"According to Bernard Lewis, "the Jews were not just permitted to settle in the Ottoman lands" - Couldn't find any other historian supporting your claim except Jewish one a hardly impartial but still used the term 'permitted', that's hardly a welcome or invitation and the rest is his imagination - In regard of a letter there's no record and proof was written or sent, sorry,... There's Cyrus Cylinder in British Museum in London and it's replica at UN headquarters in NYC a product of a Persian culture and one man's vision that have an inscribed on it a decree that has been described as the first charter of human rights record predating the Magna Carta by nearly two millenniums - That's a proof that I can touch and don't have to rely on any historian's interpretation. Where's yours ??? ,... Couple of my posts didn't make due to some details I mentioned but that your loss ;) ,...

With a low GDP , life expectancy , no technology . And with EU money .

But you can't read them . But if Poland is so good , why do you live in the US ?

When Mehmet II "the Conqueror" took Constantinople in 1453, he encountered an oppressed Romaniot (Byzantine) Jewish community which welcomed him with enthusiasm. Sultan Mehmet II issued a proclamation to all Jews "... to ascend the site of the Imperial Throne, to dwell in the best of the land, each beneath his Dine and his fig tree, with silver and with gold, with wealth and with cattle...". Not only "permitted" but invited to bring wealth into Turkey .

<> How do you know they were less gifted? Poorer, definitely. But poverty is not reason enough to exclude someone from obtaining adequate education. And, mind you, numerus clausus was in effect implemented only in medical and law faculty. And was felt to be highly discriminatory by the sons and daughters of medical doctors and lawyers who - yes - constituted the professional "Elite in Warsaw". You ask: "Why did non Jews not enroll in vaster quantities?". And what, listen to the lectures sitting outside the lecture rooms? For some - discrimination, for others - empowerment. It so happened, that the candidates from other national minorities (Ukrainian, German, Bielorussian) were not over represented in these two fields of study. Seeing this empowerment policy as deliberately discriminatory and thus antisemitic is, I think, your problem. Seeing the contents of your other posts, yes - your problem, definitely so.

... or people not sharing the state religion" - This line doesn't hold water - Poland for instance always had other minorities devoted to different faiths but also devoted, faithful citizens and patriots first in line to serve and defend their adopted homeland.

Am impressed. Your country, just like in that unforgettable hymn: <<... greatest country in the world ... number one exporter of potassium All other countries have inferior potassium>>

Because I'm not a Jew, this country and people means something to me after few decades. My home is here, my kids and grandkids, my friends and business, and because I'm only 10-12 hours away from Poland it depends what airline I take and if I want to see my friends in Frankfurt or Copenhagen ,...

If you take entry exams ALL the best gifted have a chance , even the poorer ones . In the whole world children of the elite were , and are , also going more to univs than others . No numerus clausus , and there are also more Jewish doctors and lawyers in % of population . But in other countries there is no numerus clausus , no official racist policies as Poland had in those years . And again , was there no non Jewish Elite , were there NO well-to-do non Jewish Poles ? Their children could also achieve studies , or was the ELITE and the well-to-do segment of Warsaw's population entirely Jewish ? Why should they have to sit outside ? If there are 100 places , the first 100 to register should have a place . But the best , and only fair solution is a entry exam . Or are you fearing that there Jews would be the best ones ? No antisemitism . And those posters ?

All Jewish sources not one impartial just Jewish bla, bla, but assume it's true I like to ask why did you have to stab them in the back or others that allowed you to stay is that your nature or simply you don't know any better? ,... Maybe he wanted 'your' silver your gold and cattle stolen from Spain and Portugal ;) ,....

Are you brain dead or what ? Are you trying to convince us that the kid that just got out from ghetto or boonie town high school have the same chance at the exams at Harvard or Yale that the kid with loaded and connected parents that graduated the best private school ? ,...

Hurwicz was born in Soviet Union but that doesn't matter i got used to your 'mishaps', what's matter it's how many of those 'Jews' wanted/insisted to be recognised as Jews and how many didn't or didn't give a damn about their roots and become a 'Jews' only because hasbara goons dug them out of a closet they choose to stay in trying to assimilate and blend in like other minorities - I can name a few of those outed

Oh yea , "this country means something to me ...." yes a good life , while in Poland it's hard to live . Your business is there ? as if you can't set up something in Poland . Well , your country means MORE to the millions of Jews who live there than to you . They are amongst the biggest contributers to Univs , arts , and so on . They , contrary to your kind of "people" , contributed a lot more than you can do to the USA , in every field , be it finance , sciences , arts and so on .

Hurwicz is on the list of "polish" nobel prizes . They are ALL CERTAINLY Jews , with 100 % Jewish roots . And of the 7 other "polish" Nobels you had Marie Curie who worked from age 24 in France , leaves us with maximum 5 "Polish" Nobels , for 30 million Poles . Jews , with only three million , are 8 , EIGHT on the list of "Polish" Nobel prize winners . And 20 % of all the Nobels worldwide .

ALL the BEST , not important what their origin is . We were talking about Warsaw . By reading your reaction , do i have to think that the non Jewish Poles were poor and uneducated ? You show your "education" , "all Jewish sources just "jewish bla bla" . All Historians agree on this , Jews were welcomed with open arms . They could not bring their wealth from Spain , they had to leave it to the Spaniards . Again your lack of "education" .

Sometimes Wikipedia is not the best source...and I guess that's what you're using. As far as I remember in Poland we never included the prizes attributed to Jews living abroad in the list of "Polish" Nobel prizes. I've never ever heard of those people.

When I said "I've never heard of those people" I meant that I'm not familiar with their names and work. I was vaguely aware that some Jews who were born in Poland won Nobel prizes.

Bet you couldn't cut it in Poland. Didn't stick around to rebuild Poland after the war. You're an opportunist. Grabbed the greencard and took the first flight to US. Now you're a 6-pack joe holding two stinky jobs. Those are your words. What a hypocrite.

Yes, Israel has higher GDP, but please notice that it is not extremely high. It's only slightly higher than the GDP of Spain or Greece - why? Besides, the Polish economy has been growing strongly during the past 20 years. Each country has problems. As Split already pointed out, and he's right on that, Polish high-school children rank much higher in international PISA tests than Israeli children. Israeli results are probably dragged down by the religious schools (and maybe Arab schools). There are reports (in Israeli press) that the level of teaching of sciences and other secular subjects in religious schools is very low. The Israeli government spends hundreds of millions of dollars to help Haredi men find jobs. Less than half of them work and frequently they have no skills necessary to get jobs in the modern economy. And this is a group that is growing in Israeli.

We have to remember one thing - Poles assimilate much more quickly. Many American Jews have been living there for generations but they keep their Jewish identity. That doesn't happen for Poles. They don't have to marry other Poles for religious reasons and they quickly intermarry and assimilate. Martha Steward has Polish parents, who knows about it? So "Poles" in America are largely first-generation immigrants and for such people it is more difficult to get to the top, earn very high incomes etc. For the comparison to be valid, you would have to compare first-generation Jewish immigrants and first-generation Polish immigrants. One example of that I just found - Frank Wilczek, a Nobel prize laurate in physics, wrote that his grandparents on his father's side came from Poland. So ethnically, he's half-Polish. But he probably can't speak Polish nor has a strong sense of Polish identity. Jack Szostak, another Nobel prize winner, says he can't speak Polish but "remembers his Polish roots". This being said, I read somewhere that Poles are actually among the most educated and wealthiest communities in the US according to Census, but I haven't had the opportunity to verify this.

Poles , who are Christians , will certainly assimilate more rapidly in a mostly Christian country , than Jews do . We have seen it in Western Europe where Polish and Italian immigrants came that they too assimilated quickly . One , of direct Italian origin , is now Belgium's prime minister . The list of Nobel prizes i've seen was not in wikipedia i think . I have a Israeli list , who gives the birth country . Reichstein , Schally , Singer , Hoffmann , Michelson and Charpak , not to forget Shimon Peres , were all Born in Poland . That US citizens of Polish origin are actually very well educated , it's possible , why not .

All this GDP crap is just a crap, we all know that without US and German handouts you would be gone in a month. Here're some details who and how keeps you afloat aside of monetary and military handouts - Google "U.S. and Israel agree to develop plan to boost trade" and read all about it's a one way sucking sound of US technology and companies transferred to Israel subsidised by taxpayer due to US Government financial incentives so your crappy product that no one else abroad wants to buy is coming to US. There's quietly passed law in this country that makes illegal to boycott Israeli product fortunately found unconstitutional in one case by judge in Washington State.

Why don't visit them and see for yourself - Unlike you they thrive without schnorring and handouts and by the way they chip in to Union coffers more than they get back in return not to mention militarily in NATO, so save your breath ,... In case you decide to go there don't bring your kosher rations wrapped in newspaper, please spend few bucks there in restaurants - Great food and service for 1/3 of the price you would pay in TA, trust me,...

Damn right they couldn't, but because they "transferred" their loot acquired by usury or a reward for treachery/collaboration with enemy elswere long before they got their a$$es kicked out of Spain or any other country leaving their hosts broke and bankrupt ,...

... or Begin (Mieczyslaw Biegun) your arch-terrorist hero ;) ,...

a deserter from Polish Army and a thief that stole equipment, weapons, ammo and medical supplies from Poles creating havoc and causing delays on their way to fight Nazis