Who's afraid of autonomy?
Elyakim Haetzni
Published: 09.01.13, 00:06
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1. It's starting to be sad
Ferdinand ,   France & Israel   (01.09.13)
The plots made up by the loony right to keep Judea and Samaria but avoid its inhabitants are starting to pass from funny to sad. So what Haetzni is suggesting here is that most people living in Judea and Samaria should live in one country but vote in another country, a country in which they may never even have set foot. How would we react if the US suddenly decided that American Jews can no longer vote in US elections, they have to vote in Israeli elections instead. We would of course be outraged, but that is the same principle as Haetzni is suggesting here. Not funny any more, just sad.
2. well-stated
george   (01.09.13)
the author has it right as opposed to the osloists who fail to understand exactly what the arabs want. Even Morsi espouses the arab exclusive right to islamic land. Israel for him is a distraction, has no rights even though morsi could go to san diego state and take his doctorate but jews of course are entitled to nothing so long a sthey are in the middle east. Morsi knows the truth in science but not in his religious side. he ignores the truth. He will go the way of nasser if he tries to pin israel down.
3. The Land of Palestine, Land of the Jews
ltrail ,   United States   (01.09.13)
Elyakim Haetzni says, "Seemingly, this was the realization of the "two states for two peoples" vision, but the new nation demanded two countries – "Jordan" in the east and Palestine in the west – so far only in Judea, Samaria and Gaza". But at the time, Palestine was considered the Land of the Jews. Also, Palestine would be on the east side of the Jordan river. Judea and Samaria were always Jewish districts and land parcels.
4. These Mandates . . .
SD Charger ,   San Diego   (01.09.13)
Who held the power to create such things? Israel should conquer the land and tell everyone else to take a hike. It's about time for Israel to start delivering their own "mandates."
5. Palestinian sovereignty in Amman + autonomy in WB areas A+B
Jake ,   USA   (01.09.13)
This is the only just & durable solution, but it won't take place without the use of force. Israel must topple the illegal Hashemite rulers of Palestine, install the PA government in Amman, and 'presto' this arrangement is instantly in place, albeit without a formal peace agreement (which isn't worth the paper its written on anyhow). Palestinian sovereignty in Amman + autonomy in West Bank areas A+B is the only just and durable solution to the conflict. P.S. Gaza to Egypt.
6. Historical truth and the right solution for today circumstan
Avram Goldsmith ,   Toronto, Canada   (01.09.13)
Due to blant mistakes of previous Israeli political leaders and in actual circumstances the solution seems the best fit to situation.
7. Ludicrous
Adam ,   N.Y.   (01.09.13)
a system of so called autonomy boils down to this: They wont have control over their borders, over who enters and who leaves, over their exports or imports (thus no control over their economy), they will have no land for agriculture, they will have no control over their electricity or water, they will have no control over foreign policy (which is the essence of self determination) and there will not be any option to accomodate the return of the refugees from 1948 and their descendents. This system is one where Israel gets all the land and all the power, and the palestinians get put in 'reserves/ghettos/bhantustans' in which they have control over rubbish pick up and street cleaning.
8. This is a great idea
mel ,   miami   (01.09.13)
9. actually, it's the colonial agenda that is crumbling
Lynx ,   Palestine   (01.09.13)
No... Different religious sects of Arabs will not go their way. also Palestinians will exact their full political and human rights within former Mandate territory West of The River. any talk of autonomy should be for Jewish former Zionists in Poland, Germany etc. The article is racist and lying (So called Jordan was so sparsely populated in the 1920 it did not relate in any way to the over 1,000,000 Palestinians across the river...So spare me the Palestinian state was already created propaganda.
10. Israel unilaterally declared its State/borders
lydia ,   Brisbane   (01.09.13)
Nothing outside the unilaterally declared Jewish State belongs to Israel. Make your bed lay in it!
11. But Jordan no longer wants the 'Palestinians'.
bob k ,   orlando usa   (01.09.13)
Jordan renounced all claims to territory west of the Jordan river in 1988 and therefore to ruling over these Arabs. Israel does not want them since they would overwhelm us therefore some kind of state entity could be established but only if these Arabs make peace with Israel and that means hamas also. By the way Britan called everybody on both sides of the Jordan 'Palestinian' - the European name for Israel. Till that happens no state! Land for peace and nothing less.
12. First I want to see Kurdish, Bask maybe Chechen authonomy to
tom ,   tel aviv   (01.09.13)
see how THAT works! Enough with this "two peoples" nonsense. There never was nor will there be a "Palestinian Nation" and if Shimon Peres& Yossi Beilin want it, they can grow one in THEIR backyard! Not on my property,thank you.
13. #LYNX
Iranian Jew ,   LA   (01.09.13)
So what do you suggest? This charade will go on forever if we don't stop it. Israel will not just disappear and neither will Palestine. The two nations, Jordan and Egypt need to join the at the table and find a solution for this.
14. Judging from these talkbacks
David ,   South Park/Miami, US   (01.09.13)
Sooner or later the United States and international community are going to have to place sanctions on Israel. Israeli society is moving so far to the right that most will openly admit their intention and desire to create a full fledged apartheid situation in the Palestinian territories. These crazy ideas of having Palestinians obtain Jordanian citizenship are nothing more than dreams. However, many Israeli's including many knesset members support these ideas. So sooner or later we will be forced to place strong sanctions on the world's only Jewish nation- and Israel will have no one to blame but themselves. They are forcing the world to take action against their insanity.
15. #14: Dear Duvidke, do I have news for you: Yes we are waking
tom ,   tel aviv   (01.09.13)
up from that drug-induced state they called Oslo peace process. Some of us had the brains to call that bluff right from the beginning (Rabin assassination being a great negative force in unveiling of the truth). Now it became "fashionable" to admit to being an Israeli Patriot & NOT apologize for it! Brain-dead, vacuous, slogan spewing, lousy Jews of the J-street persuasion can only squirm in their (your) holes....
16. about as stupid as Felgins pay them to emigrate idea
zionist forever   (01.09.13)
This really is another one of those totally wacky ideas like Moshe Felgins one saying give all the arabs $500,00 apiece to emigrate because they all want to emigrate. The one think all these wacky ideas have in common is we expect the arabs to like the idea as much as we do. We want to annex Judea & Samaria and give arabs autonomy, has anybody thought to ask the arabs is this would be a solution they would agree with? If we keep coming up with wacky unworkable solutions like this one so we can keep some houses we are going to find ourselves in a situation whereby we annex Judea & Samaria inherit the millions of arabs and give them full Israeli citizenship. Result is a binational state which arabs have full citizenship of to replace Israel, no more Jewish state, no more alliyah and probably even changing the name of the country. Do we want Israel to be just another of histories failed experiments? Oslo may have failed but we should not rush into making other solutions and do not bring religious ideology into political situations ( Judea & Samaria belonging to Jews ) when you start bringing religion into it you start to really mess things up because we want it all and end up losing everything. Sharon probably had the best idea of all when he dreamed up Kadima and that was Israel takes what it needs give the rest to the arabs as a state rather than an oslo based 2 state solution. Maybe if the Heshimites are toppled in Jordan it might change things but for now we must not start shouting and screaming annex Judea & Samaria and we end up with the arabs, THINK WITH YOUR HEAD NOT YOUR HEART
17. For the sake of our country's future please read Shlomo Sand
Rachel Rabin ,   TA, Israel   (01.09.13)
1) The Invention of the Jewish People 2) The Invention of the Land of Israel It might save our democratic country, the State of Israel. Thank you.
18. What is really sad
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (01.09.13)
We tried the leftist way for so long that our people have tunnel vision and cannot comprehend that it will never work. All he is advocating is mere thing called international law - it's our land and the Arabs are not allowed to steal it. We are called greedy because we wish to retain 0.07% of the Middle East - that's right less than 1/10th of one percent. The Arabs already have 99.93% of the land and it's not enough. But then again they practice a version of apartheid far worse than South Africa and we are accused of that too. With Arabs the opposite of everything they claim is the truth
19. #9 - cry all you want but reality on the ground is against U
William ,   Israel   (01.09.13)
and so are the myriad of laws and conventions dated well before the "Palestinian" people were created. If you want to get nasty, we could bring up the many Arab foreign immigrants forced into the West Bank after Jordan's illegal annexation to take ethnically cleansed Jewish homes and property. Under Intl law, those souls will be going bye-bye back to Amman. Are you one of them?
20. #10 - that ended when Israel was attacked
William ,   Israel   (01.09.13)
When Israel was attacked and gain land, the defacto but not final border became the 1949 cease-fire line. And that didn't provide the Arabs - who stole the land through war - ownership over it which is a violation of the Geneva Convention. The land remains disputed, it will be sliced up per negotiations, and the final borders will not resemble 1947 or 1949 lines. This by no means prejudices the legally binding 1922 League of Nations vote which was illegally over-ridden by the UN Partition of 1947, which clearly states and supports the premise of the author's proposal. The Arabs rejected partitions, cease-fires, peace deals, and many failures in battle. They made their bed and they will lie in it.
21. for all the dreamers that talk as if Israel were just an
Yosi ,   Gilo-Jerusalem   (01.09.13)
invention, I say, your ignorance is showing. There are not millions of arabs in Israel. #16 his last name is Feiglin, at least have the decency to spell it correctly. And yes, send these arabs back to where they came from, He was being to generous. I would send them back after having paid their bills for electricity, utilities and medical benefits they never paid for or deserved.
22. #16, the Arabs need not agree, for this to be implemented
Jake ,   USA   (01.09.13)
Israel must demand that the Hashemite rulers of Palestine replace the PA in areas A & B, or the PA will replace them in Amman. The Arabs may not accept this as a final resolution, but this scenario will reduce the conflict to a border dispute between two sovereign states. A much better situation than the current one.
23. #1, the Arabs wont be living & voting in different countries
Jake ,   USA   (01.09.13)
The autonomous areas of the West Bank will be Palestinian territory. The Palestinians living there will be citizens of Palestine (presently Jordan). They will be voting in Palestinian parliamentary elections because they are citizens of Palestine, and voting in local elections (Ramallah, Jenin, Jericho etc) because they are residents of those cities. What is so hard to comprehend?
24. #14 - "sooner or later, Intl community place sanctions on IL
William ,   Israel   (01.09.13)
Better yet - when the intl community gets the balls to place sanctions on the "Palestinians" themselves rather than bankroll their corruption and terrorism - we might finally see peace. The onus has always been on Israel to make concessions and yet when met with Arab terrorism, no real action towards the "Palestinians" by the intl community are taken. They are as useless here as they are in Syria, which has sent 60,000 people to their death in the past year. But truth be told, there is little the intl community can legally do. The final borders - BY LAW and UN CHARTER - remain the responsibility of the immediate neighbors to negotiate on. Most "Palestinians" in the West Bank already have Jordanian citizenship, including many PLO leaders, so perhaps not as crazy as you think. When the Intl Community levies sanctions on India and Pakistan over kasmir, or Iran over UAE islands, or Morocco over Western Sahara, or Russia over provinces of Georgia it occupies, or on China and japan for their moves on the isolated islands, then they can consider sanctions on Israel AND "Palestinians". Until then - they can, and should, offer little more than advice, options, and incentives.
25. #17 - I prefer to read The Invention of Palestinians
William ,   Israel   (01.09.13)
in order to adhere to historical facts and previously legal-binding agreements in the 1920s. I think the Rabin family has done enough for the State of Israel, and that's been underscored by the massive expulsion of the delusional Left from the govt by Israeli voters. You're welcome to your own ideology and agenda, but you're not welcome to practice it on me and my family for you won't be the one dealing with the consequences.
26. No matter how often israel repeats a lie, it is still a lie.
BDS   (01.09.13)
27. #7 Ever heard of the Partition Plan "with economic union"?
Jake   (01.09.13)
When the UN proposed partition in 1947, it did not propose two independent sovereign states with independent economies. Why? Because the Arabs of Mandate Palestine did not have an economy of their own. The economy of Mandatort Palestine was a function of Jewish industry and enterprise, Jewish agriculture, and above all, a Jewish tax base, in which Jews paid 3-4 times higher taxes per capita than the Arabs...a phenomenon that persists to this day in the difference in municipal taxes paid between the Jewish Sector and Arab Sector in Israel. The UN understood then, as it understands now, that the economy of the land between the river and the sea is synonymous with the economy of Israel. That's why the UN is keen to push for an "independent Palestinian state", but that the 2 states should have "interdependent economies".
28. Rachel #17, But Shlomo Sand's thesis has been undermined
Jake   (01.09.13)
and cast into the ash heap of history, by one simple acronym...DNA.
29. #16. Annex Judea/Samaria. Pay Arabs to leave.
Cham ,   Israel   (01.09.13)
Moshe Feiglin's plan to pay Arabs to leave Judea and Samaria is right on target. Although $500,000 per family is far too high an offer. Judea and Samaria belong to Israel by every historic and legal criteria. No nation has a stronger claim on it's land than Israel has on Judea and Samaria. Most Judea and Samaria Arabs tell pollsters they want to leave. Paying them to leave is the right solution for both Israel and Judea and Samaria Arabs.
30. #9. Soon we will have over a million Jews in Judea/ Samaria.
Chaim ,   Israel   (01.09.13)
Within 20 years, we will have well over 2 million Jews in Judea and Samaria. Nobody will even waste their breath talking about Fictional Palestine.
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