Opinion
Fatherhood license revoked
Ben Ilan
Published: 12.01.13, 13:10
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63 Talkbacks for this article
31. Children entitled to a mother and a father.
(01.13.13)
32. #26 - Agree 100% with you
Esther   (01.13.13)
33. #29 I'd show you...
2Mad ,   גולה בצרפת   (01.13.13)
... but I'm too afraid that the mere smell of your mouth would make it retract like a burned snail. I'm such a coward sometimes...
34. I will now vote Shas thanks to you
Sheba Leah ,   Ashdod Israel   (01.13.13)
I believe that a child should be brought up in a home with a mother and a father. Jewish law is against homosexuality, therefore I will do all that I can to make this a Jewish State observing Jewish laws, to prevent even one child having to be brought up by a homosexual parent.I will therefore vote Shas.
35. #29. Ha! Ha! Ha! You are a riot!
Harry Wright ,   UK   (01.13.13)
I could not stop laughing! I'll reward you for that. I'll keep you guessing - no kiss and tell from this guy. But why don't you like the term "tool"? It is most appropriate. Ever heard of a screw driver? It is a great tool to have around. I can vouch for it and so can my "wife"! You are just too funny!
36. Children are ENTITLED to a loving parents). Because of
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (01.13.13)
divorce or death, many children have only one loving parent and this male/male couple could bring another Jew into the world. It shames me as a Jew to see how Jews spew hatred to other Jews because they don't have the same values as their neighbor. Maybe the anti-gay people would like to get rid of all the anti-Semitic people in Israel, if so, just transfer the arabs to Jordan. Loving a child as a parent does is not a crime, be it a male or female or two males or two females. Stop the hate.
37. many adopted kids are time bombs
iselin ,   Oslo, Norway   (01.13.13)
fetal alcohol syndrome, inability to bond, sensory deprivation, psychosis. Surely I am not the only one who has read about adoptions from Russia, Romania and the good old US that have gone bad because the children are destroyed before their adoptive families get them. I understand anyone who doesn't want an unknown quantity entering the family. People with kids recommend adoption to others because it seems like such a no-brainer. Needy kids and families with open arms, but often these kids have too much baggage through no fault of their own.
38. #1, couldn't have said it any better.
Jake ,   USA   (01.13.13)
The cultural fascists in the gay community will call you a bigot, but the overwhelming silent majority agrees with every word you wrote.
39. Like It Or Not
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim   (01.13.13)
B"H - Sorry Ben Ilan at Bar Ilan, for certain "licences" we have to apply to Hashem, to our G-d, not to the State, even if they don't teach this to you in law school.
40. Selfish man. What of the child's right to a mother? What of
(01.13.13)
the "surrogates" rights to her own body and not having her normal body functions sold to your fancy lawyer's money -- essentially buying the poor woman's child, and she being too poor to say "no". Her body is functioning normally, yours is behaving in aberration and, accordingly, will not provide what you seek.
41. dear #37
voice of reason ,   israel   (01.13.13)
...i speak as an adoptive parent, but thanks. Adopted kids - even those with baggage - need a home. Biological children as just as likely to be "time-bombs" - most mass murderers seem not to be adopted, nor is our criminal justice system awash with people blaming their crimes on their adoption....or on their gay parents for that matter.
42. The right of the child
Michael ,   Kokhav Yair, Israel   (01.13.13)
A child should have the right to be brought up by two parents, a mother and a father, if living and not to be adopted into any exotic relationship with unknown outcomes. Do whatever you want in the privacy of your own home but leave the children out of it. Why is this so hard to understand?
43. Good for you Harry Wright
Daniel ,   Tel Aviv   (01.13.13)
Did you teach your four wonderful children to be as intolerant as you? Clearly you missed the point. Gays should have as much right to care for children and raise them as any straight adoptive parent. Gays should have the same rights as straight people to surrogacy. Intolerance breeds intolerance and abuse breeds abuse. From my perspective all people should have to pass parenting classes before being allowed to procreate. Too many people are horrible at it. But until such a law exists to deny gay people the same legal methods of adopting a child is just bigotry
44. Dear Ben
female ,   TA/Amsterdam   (01.13.13)
You are totally right, but Israel is not a real Democracy, there is no seperation of Religion & State. The Netherlands was the first country that gave Gay people the right to marry, adopt children etc I think the only option you have is to find someone , maybe a good girlfriend or otherwise to pay someone, I'm sorry, hope that things will work out, for sure you will be a wonderfull father. Good luck..
45. I recognize your right to have a child
Orly ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (01.13.13)
... even if you can't, which is no one's fault, not even the Romans. But it is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
46. Secularly Law Abiding, But Not So According To Torah
Robert Blum ,   New Albany, USA   (01.13.13)
In homosexuals' great efforts to gain legitimacy in its standing in mainstream society, it has cut deeply into the fabric of that universal mainstream, by hammering into the heads of the mediocrity in particular, the veneer of reasons that legitimacy is the correct and only way to 'deal' with the demands of homosexuals, and to insist that the norm is abnormal for rejecting out-right, the inverse and stolen, hence perverse, social values adopted by homosexuals. There cannot possibly be a true and genetic succession arising from homosexuality. In and of itself, homosexuals are doomed, unless society agrees to allow them legitimacy in adopting children, whereby homosexual values can be drummed into those children's minds as an acceptable however alternate form of the norm, life-style. In this way, they gain a continuity of themselves and of the problem inherent to homosexuality. The veneer of homosexuality being a nice, normal but just 'another' choice in life-styles, is seen from the presentation of the beautiful rainbow as its symbol and in the widely used word, 'gay' as a substitute for the harshness of one with an affinity for homo-sex. Such self-serving symbols are deceitful. There is no universal beauty in such a life-style, except unto themselves. Their need to influence the mediocrity and their insistence that their sexual preferences are correct, good and should be acceptable, does not make it so! Undermining the millennia old institution of marriage, G-d's LAWS, and what is the norm are strivings toward achieving a social comfort which is self-serving, yet destructive to the greater and universal social norm. Yes they may argue that dogs and even penguins display homosexual behavior, but I think that there is no detriment to the society of dogs or of penguins. I am not asking homosexuals to live among penguins or dogs, but, and my view may be incorrect, if such people became homosexuals because of having been molested as children, then at least that segment of homosexuals is 'afflicted', and that segment may be treatable toward the objective of achieving the norm, so as to become genetically successful with children of their own, if this is in fact a desired individual goal. I do not offer a solution for homosexuality as a whole, and clearly many homosexuals do not believe that a solution is desirable. I can merely state that it is a threat to the greater, universal society, as I stated above, and may serve to allow those who seek acceptance eventually for other sexual deviations of the norm, such as for example, bestiality. After all, if the norm is undermined and shifted radically, then where does it end?
47. To: No. 44
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.13.13)
Before you start crowing about the accomplishments of the Netherlands, please do keep in mind that they rather famously exploit women in the red light district of Amsterdam, provide drugs pretty much on demand to addicts, and -- let us never forget what the Dutch did to the Jewish people during World War II. Do you really think that the sexploitation of Dutch women is a sign of democracy? How about the enthusiastic roundup of Jews and handing them over to the Nazis for certain death. Dutch "democracy." Find another story, dear, one which isn't tainted by fact.
48. From an Orthodox Jew
Moshico ,   Jerusalem   (01.13.13)
I am an Orthodox Jew and live in Israel, I keep the miztvot, I keep Shabbat and I am also open minded. If this person has commited to this country, been in the army and pays his taxes the I feel he has the right to parent children in this country. Whether he was born gay, or not is not the issue the Issue is raising a family and I feel he has the right to do so. The PM can not make up his mind on his own this is an issue that deserves a vote. I am sure he would raise his children better that some heterosexual couple and religious ones too. Good luck Ben IIan
49. adoption versus abortion
Danny ,   London England   (01.13.13)
Israel has a lot of abortion, some of which could well be changed into adoption by couples who cannot have children. To avoid same sex marriage the adoption law could permit a single person to adopt, with or without a partner. From the Halachic view adoption is much preferable to abortion.
50. to 46
iselin ,   Oslo, Norway   (01.13.13)
Homosexuals are born, not made. No drumming of homosexual values (as you put it) into a child will make a born hetero turn gay. Being gay is not a lifestyle choice
51. to 48: There should be more people like you
iselin ,   Oslo, Norway   (01.13.13)
You show that it is possible to lead a religious life and still have sense not to judge people by old rules. Too bad you can't teach the die-hards about empathy, charity, kindness and being non-judgmental about those different from themselves. Israel needs more people like you. THanks for your good words.
52. 51 Yselin Look at the foto !
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (01.13.13)
Would you entrust your child to this guy?
53. #50
Ariel ,   Modi'in, Israel   (01.13.13)
After all your options stated in the talk-backs above, you have now propounded one fallacy too many. After personally witnessing perfectly normal heterosexual teens be infected (and I use term on purpose) during my high school years and then choose to live a homosexual lifestyle thereafter you will never convince me that homos are born that way!! I think it's back to biology 101 for you!!
54. Society is more open than we think
George ,   EU/US   (01.13.13)
2 fathers used surrogacy to have a child. It was first time 13 years ago that a procedure allowed to mix sperm. The child will turn 12 soon, very adjusted, a real blessing to the family and totally welcome in a modern orthodox community, an active member of highly educated communities. A right? maybe. A privilege and a blessed responsibility, no doubt.
55. To: No. 49
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.13.13)
Your scenario completely overlooks the rights of the pregnant woman. She may not wish to carry a pregnancy to term. Has that occurred to you?
56. Buying babies
Chaim Ben Kahan ,   Efrat, Israel   (01.13.13)
Rich gay men paying disadvantaged women in India for their babies so that Gay couples can fulfill their desire to be parents is exploitative and unfair to deny these children from knowing their own Mother. Are babies now just another commodity to buy and sell? I think the same value applies to Heterosexual couples and how cruel to deny a child from ever knowing their Mothers. It's basically a legal form of kidnapping and buying a baby. One should not have the right to purchase a baby like one would a loaf of bread. I know nice gay parents, but part of me feels this is artificial and that children should have natural parents, and know their own mother. It is also exploitative of poor women in India. I think Gay parents should adopt older children and children with disadvantages, and not be making custom made babies. It's sad to think these children are taking away from their own Mothers when they are purchased.
57. This child is not responsible ...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (01.13.13)
of the unorthodox act of his parents. Why shouldn t he not be welcome ?
58. 56 Chaim,you are 100% right.
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (01.13.13)
59. then don't be a Jew
Ilan ,   TA   (01.14.13)
If you're concerned that a child of a gay couple will have a difficult life, then you should not be a Jew - life would be much easier for you. If you're willing to stay a Jew, then you're okay having a difficult life. The right to children is a basic right. The right to traditional and old religion is what should be questioned.
60. what about the child?
yaacov ,   Tel Aviv   (01.14.13)
A child needs a father and a mother. Not 2 fathers or 2 mothers.
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