Don't try to give me lessons , but try to understand what i wrote . I know , certainly better as you do , the meaning of those two words . I have NEVER seen the word Shoa used for NON Jewish victims . There are people i'm not agreeing with , but their opinion , contrary to your's , is important to me .

Of course the rest of the world is not going to use "Shoah", as the lingua franca is English. Does the UN celebrate Shoah Day or Holocaust Day? So when I hear Shoah, I too think of the Jewish victims. But this does not mean that the concept of Shoah/Holocaust is limited to Jews by everyone. If my opinion is not important to you, don't respond. Shalom.

The UN celebrates Holocaust day on January 27 th , the day Auschwitz , a camp were one million Jews were murdered , was liberated . So for them Holocaust = murder of Jews , too . I try only to give you some "knowledge" you need very much .

was recited at the UN . For non Jews ?

you are arguing with a grand expert in Jewish history?

but not accepting things on the other one . Most people when talking about the Holocaust , and certainly when saying Shoa , only think at the murder of 6 mllion Jews . Others were murdered too , but not in the planned way Jews were , there was no "wannsee conference" for them . Have you once heard a "El male rachamim" for non Jews ? It was said at this commemoration . Thanks for your appreciation

All I am saying is that many people think of the Holocaust as happening to Jews and others. Others were killed at Auschwitz. Roma were targeted. Russian POW's were targeted. And no, Ora, I do not hear a "grand expert in Jewish history". I only have heard, in many other TB's, a person who "knows" he is always right. And that is not so grand. Peace to you both.

For hundreds of years, the word "holocaust" was used in English to denote great massacres, but since the 1960s, the term has come to be used by scholars and popular writers to refer to the Nazi genocide of Jews.The television mini-series Holocaust is credited with introducing the term into common parlance after 1978. The biblical word Shoah (שואה) (also spelled Sho'ah and Shoa), meaning "calamity", became the standard Hebrew term for the Holocaust as early as the 1940s, especially in Europe and Israel.[18] Shoah is preferred by many Jews for a number of reasons, including the theologically offensive nature of the word "holocaust", which they take to refer to the Greek pagan custom. Yes , i'm , contrary to you , OFTEN right . Accept this and don't try to give lessons . A polite person writes the feminine name first .

conceited. That is his biggest flaw. On the other hand he has an immens knowledge. Better a diamond with flaw than a pebble without flaw.

men are adressed first.

In Western countries , women first ! And this counts for me , as i'm NOT Orthodox [ G-d zai dank ! LOL ]

Did i some what overestimate your knowledge? A good plan to refresh your memory : Go sleep and have nice dreams.

but with a WESTERN culture . Where were you educated ? in the Middle East ? Now , regarding Orthodox men , they also thank G-d for not being a women , this too shows their disdain for women . Sorry , but YOU began with this . Have a nice day , even with her much needed rain .

Charles, your name came first as I was mostly answering your posts. As now. We disagree. Period. Shalom. END.

respect and love their OWN woman,and that is what counts ! Why must Jews from Arab countries conform to Western culture too? ONLY Jewish culture is common to ALL Jews. Here from A.Einstein a saying you might like: "True religion is real living, living with all one s soul,with all one s goodness and righteousness." I think ,Judaism is all about that. Have a fine week-end and Shabat Shalom.

be a reason to withdraw. Shabat Shalom.

Not only orthodox men love and respect their own woman . Didn't your Husband ZL love and respect you BEFORE you became Orthodox ? Jews who came from Arab countries are now ISRAELIS who live also in the 21st century , with an Western culture . Jewish culture is not common to all of us , we do not sing or dance in the same way as the Themanim , we do not feast the Mimouna as the North African Jews do , we do not eat rice at Pesach . Asckenazim pray also in a differeent way as the Sefaradim do . All those Jews have great traditions and folklore What is important in Judaism is "ve'ahavta et re'echa kamocha" . Listen Ora , i have no good relations with "G'd" , will you , who has , ask him to let it rain ONLY by night ? [LOL ] שבת שלום

You are in "good" company with your ideas . You share them with antisemites who say the same things as you do [ look at this benassi ]

you object to everything. Have a lovely week.

Post #44, and the b$ written therein, gives the lie to your high praise of Charles. He is conceited to the point of assuming he knows others because of their posts...posts he obviously doesn't pay attention to or even remember, as his conclusions are so way off-base. By comparing me to benassi, he proves my point, and causes me to reduce what little respect I may have had for him and his posts, to nil.

Respect or non respect is worth what the "giver" is . In your case , not much . And yes , antisemites also "mix" non Jews in Holocaust , so the Jewish sufferings means less for them . Enough time wasted with you , you are'nt worth it , this is already known for a long time .

to "object" you . I like it , in this kind way . Have a great week ! From 10 to 15 feb : international book fair in our capital [ sunday only between 18 to 21 h ] I'm going .

"Suffering" is not a container of 100%, where caring about suffering of others diminishes caring about suffering of one's own. You have no idea what my parents and relatives went through, yet you deign to make judgements. Thank you for proving my point regarding respect not due you.

fiction books about the first pioneers in Israel.The best in this genre i read and reread was written in Hebrew by Sulamit Lapid the mother of Lapid. She did not dislike, as did her husband, religious people .The Hebrew name of the book is 'Gay Oni' ,describes the first days of Rosh Pina. If i where not "has vehalila" an orthodox woman i would love to meet you there. Hope you will find the special something,as you sometimes do.

Why "has vehalila" ? Is it so "grave" to be Orthodox ? i don't think so . The pioneers did a great job here . They paved the way for us . I don't think that seculars dislike religious people , it's more the behaviour of some that we dislike . My problem with books is the lack of space , and i don't like to separate myself from those i have .

related to :"if i were NOT Orthodox' Good to hear that you think that Seculars do not dislike religious people.

I read it to rapidly , sorry . I "G-d zai dank" [ lol ] am NOT religious , but don't thank G-d for not being a woman either .