briton or any other country. Israel must do what is right for itself & other nation can go their surly way.

Ben-Gurion established his leadership in the 1930s by broadening the Zionist tent to include mainstream Jews (secular and religious) as against the far Left that had inhabited it before. His arrangement with the haredim upon statehood was another example of the same. What is needed now is a third update, not a shredding.

men. As they stand, they are worthless. That is the bloody truth. They won't do a thing to save their own sorry ass. Where the hell is there the Judaism in that? I challenge anyone of them to tell me otherwise.

the Mizrachi movement fought for Shabbat, Kashrut and personal status in the twenties and thirties, and won them from the Jewish Agency, these factors were not won by the Haredim,

Regardless of its historicity, it's a ridiculous document. The status quo in a nutshell: "I, the religious, want to interfere in your life 100% because I believe that my particular brand of 'god' wants me to do that. However, I agree to compromise on it, and only interfere in your life 20% but in return, you will allow me to do that." Ohhh golly gee, what a great deal. They agree to give up on 80% of our lives, and only control 20% or so. It's time to get rid of this stupid document, and finally allow freedom of religion, and freedom from religion in Israel. In a true Jewish state, Jews get to decide how they want to express their Judaism and Jewishness (if at all). Enough already!

has there been such a bunch of no good parasites, worthless beings, both to themselves and to society, as the Haredim, who, by the way, have nothing whatsoever to do with Judasim, ancient or modern. They are simply a cult, and indeed a bane to anybody who loves Israel and Judaism.

The author relates to the "historic mistake" of Ben-Gurion "bequeath[ing] the keys to the Jewish identity of the state in the making to the Orthodox". He considers this an arbitrary decision. Considering the rate of intermarriage and assimilation in non-Orthodox streams of Judaism, one must wonder if Ben-Gurion was in fact prescient. Instead of concluding "mistake", might it be of value to think what secular Ben-Gurion saw in Orthodoxy that the author does not? Or would that require too much humility?

Not contributing to the State. Enough with the false justifications. It's time to face the music that the religious can no longer dip their hands in the honey pot while contributing nothing to the state except more children to be fed on welfare. There are too many people who give, gave and will give of themselves to the state that receive nothing. There's a reason why people want to have public transport on Shabbat, it's because alot of us have to work to put food on the tables instead of relying on cheques from the government. I support the state to have a Jewish identity and those who wish to be religious to practice what they want but not at the expense of those who work to keep the state alive and running.

Times change, and so do countries. Israel is no exception. Ben Gurion had to make important decisions. In the long run he was correct. However, Israel has changed the haredim have not. If this situation is not solved Israel will fight its biggest battle CIVIL WAR.

There is one party in Europe that "Jews do not have the right to vote or be elected in their parties." Antisemitism!! Well, switch the word Jew with Women and you see what racists and antisemites are the Hare-dim.

There is one thing for sure. Ben-Gurion and the Founders of the modern Jewish state would not have been happy at the prospect of Masorti actively gay and lesbian rabbis and their agreement to perform same-sex marriages. Ben Gurion wanted to avoid a split within the Jewish people and he was right.

This is truly, revisionist trash.

While pro-zionist ones will cooperate, in part since they have grown accustomed to government stipends, a considerable number are anti-zionist. They refuse government stipends, and regard the current government as being totally illegal. Up to now, even those who aren't learning full time, claim yeshiva "deferments" to avoid a confrontation since Israel would not allow concientious objector status. If this group is conscripted, they will refuse to report, will refuse to obey orders, will appear to international human rights groups, might seek asylum elsewhere (perhaps in Palestinian territories), and by their public protests would serious hurt Israel's international. Jews fleeing Israel and requesting asylum due to religious persecution is not the sort of image Israel wants to project. Just imagine "Neturei Karta" going from a few dozen activists, and turning into a mass movement with perhaps 100000 active supporters. There has not been a hareidi alternative to zionism offered since Dr. De Haan was killed for advocating Jewish-Arab harmony. Do the leaders of Israel really want to pick a fight that could serious undermine their position.

You remind me of the strummer ,,, Such hatred,,,,,,, Are u Jewish ?

must first turn the lazy bums of Bney Brak into educated/ working individuals, then we can hope to slowly turn them into thinking individuals, only then can we start dreaming of religion-free society. By then Islam shold be long gone. If not: we'll be gone for sure. as to Ben Gurion: it's about time we start portraying that man in a completely different & truthful light. Then we can move on to Sct.Itzhak.....

Yes Sam, I am Jewish. No Sam, I do not hate. Israeli,fifth generation. Love my country. Not loony left, but far right. Religion is the bane of Mankind. Can't stand parasites. What my family and I have given and done for Israel over the last 130 years could not be equalled by all the Haredim in squalor ridden Bnei Brak and Mea Shearim in a concerted effort. You accuse me of "Der Sturmer". try that on those who spit on women. Yes Sam, I hold religion in contempt and in my country and homeland I particularly hold in contempt religious nuts who try to run the country and themselves have contempt for all aspects of Fraternite, Liberte, Egalite. Thank you Sam for your comments.

The biggest danger is that in response to conscription, the Palestinians will invite non-zionist Jews to move to Gaza and the West Bank, where they can live peacefully in the Eretz Yisrael, thereby proving to the world that the only realistic solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict is to return to the status quo ante of an Islamic state with an autonomous Hareidi minority. While some "modern" Jews might survive in Yafo-Tel Aviv, most zionists will be forced to leave rather than live in an Islamic state (remember that Hareidim are no worse off under Islamic rule than zionist rule). So be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

No reply Sam ?

only a complete and full separation of religion from state will enable Israel to prosper in economic, cultural, social, and political stability. With all the problems we have with our neighbors and large swaths of Muslim Arabs within Israel, we should eliminate religion from State so we can: - save money by stop funding religious institutions and salaries with tax payer money! Instead, use this money to aide the sick, eldserly, Holocaust survivors, improve the education, which should be 1 unified school system that only teaches in Hebrew- (no haredi, religious, or arab schools- only secular, co-ed national schools!) - End the culture war- practice what you like in you home and community funded place of worship- this way you can't say the State unduly influences your religious beliefs.

if they have to be openly religious and go around flaunting this so called life style, they have no right to foce it on others. What they do in the privacy of their own home is their bussiness but they have no right to force religious laws on those who choose not to belive.

You conveniently forgot to mention that Begin and his Herut party were not in the coalition. BG took the Haredim as the lesser of two evils. Mapam and Maki were true to the USSR, and Herut was extremist Nationalistic.

Thanks, Yizhar, for this excellent article. I wish I could be optimistic that change will come, but we have been trying for so long, and the situation has not improved. Case in point.....the recent Rabbi Miri Gold issue. Not being paid using the excuse of part time employment. Thanks for all you do to try to bring equality to all streams of Jews. Maybe one day there will be success.