Haredims' right not to study English
Yehuda Shein
Published: 05.02.13, 11:28
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1. Again
Mordechai ,   Beit Shemesh   (02.05.13)
They keep coming, every trick in the book, to justify why they are different/special. TOTAL RUBBISH, Enough is ENOUGH!!! Equality for all, everyone at 18 to the IDF or if not required, National Service. ALL Children have to learn core subjects and only if they pass the examination given a certificate, no certificate no work. PERIOD. Don't waste our time with these stupid and irrelevant articles!!!
2. impressive, havnt heard such a one sided rant in a while
Stuart   (02.05.13)
Am I living in a different country to Yehuda Shein ? isnt education free to all children and higher education out of your own pocket in Israel ? Dont all students need to learn bible studies along side there core studies ? If you dont have the necessary qualified to do a job why should an employer give you the job because of your religion ? Hey Yehuda not all of us believe haredim are stupid or uneducated so how about you brush those chips off your shoulders and open your eyes then open them again.
3. There must be core subjects
Jrebecca ,   modiin   (02.05.13)
Maths (even for dumb Israelis), Hebrew, possibly English. And a Jewish studies program that teaches a bit about Judaism, not just Jewish history. I was horrified when a secular Israeli friend, educated here, did not know what Havdala was, but knows all about Samuel.
4. Jewish Sciences
Thinking Jew ,   Israel   (02.05.13)
including Kabbalist Sciences 101, Mystical Sciences 101, Magic Sciences 101, Amulet Science 101, Ghetto Sciences 101, ...
5. #3 dear horrified JRebecca
Haim ,   TA   (02.05.13)
Religion is a belief, a faith call it what you like but you cannot force religious teaching on those who exercise by their own free will not to belive in religion. Freedom from religion is a basic human right and not something we need rammed down our throats thankyou very much for your concern.
6. Where did you get these facts? Check them again..
Jew1 ,   Ashdod   (02.05.13)
Majority do not work or study. Even if they want to study, the subject are not taught in school. Obviously no jobs for non-educated people. You can not bring stone age fomulas in 21st centuary. You all are not special and superior than all of us. Equality for all, haredim-secular and men-women.
7. #4
Ricky ,   The Bronx   (02.05.13)
Don't forget,, (RCSHCPI 101) Riding on the Coattales of someone elses history, culture, prophecy and inheritence 101. These Haredim are they real to themselves in this plagerized fantasy of a life.
8. All over the developed world.....
Mark ,   London, UK   (02.05.13)
Legislation provides for universal, compulsory education. To what extent do haredi object there (for example in UK or USA)?
9. Haredim Blind Ignorance and Education
Moshe ,   T/A Israel   (02.05.13)
Difficult to comprehend the article as apparently the writer wants to keep the Haredim ignorant uneducated and totally blind from anything resembling modernity. Apparently if you educate the Haredim to speak English it will be seen as discrimination?? I was asked two days ago for the time by a Haredi guy in his mid 20's and when I showed him the watch he told me he did not understand watches ........................ These people are no different from my kids except I wanted my kids to have the advantage of an education and an opportunity to understand the World we live in,Haredim could live on the dark side of the moon and be none the wiser except when it comes time to ask for money
10. Time for areal change
Joseph Frishman ,   Tiberias, Israel   (02.05.13)
Time to drag the stragglers into the modern world where they can learn to work and serve in the army. This does not mean the end of religion, but rather the end of state sponsored religion. Why should anybody be required to finance the private beliefs of someone else?. Why should anybody else be required to defend another unwilling able bodied young man.We must change our ways !!!
11. Secular subjects
rachel ,   Home again   (02.05.13)
I think that learning language well enough to understand contracts and job applications etc is VERY important for Haredim. The same I believe for maths snd sciences. Not all men are learners and must have basic literacy and numeracy skills to provide for their families and interact with the rest of the world. There are ways to teach these without contradicting Torah values and religious study time. My husband does this every day while working a full time job.
12. Maimonedes and Viln Goan and others
Tom ,   USA   (02.05.13)
were learned scholars in the sciences, math, history,language, literature etc and knew several languages. Orthodox in US learn and work and support families. What a disgraceful and ludicrous position from this writer.
13. Author should get a medal
Avi   (02.05.13)
How much crap can you stuff in a single article? The whole article starting from the headline was meant to inflame to draw attention. Giving Israeli citizens mandatory basic education is discrimination. The majority of haredim that don't work are unemployed only because of racist employers. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. I give this article too much credit by picking it apart and calling it out. It's too obvious. Even commenting here gives this article too much credit. The most perfect response was that this article would get a single view and zero comments, but this inflammatory crap will get 30 comments.
14. Don't force...
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (02.05.13)
Core subjects IDF or National Service Do force Gender Segregation Special buses Shabbat Laws "Modest" clothing... Right - we know exactly whom we are dealing with here.
15. Nothing to do with religion
G ,   Toronto   (02.05.13)
Why is it that haredim outside of Israel learn the core subjects and sit beside women on buses etc? Where I live - Toronto, Canada - there are are haredim and the majority go to university and study a profession and sit beside women on the bus. Why are haredim in Israel different? Clearly, it has nothing to do with religion.
16. Core subjects?
Jimmy ,   Brooklyn   (02.05.13)
It's documented that chareidim don't get a good secular education. So they can't get a good secular job. Sure, you can teach chareidim how to program a computer, after the fact. But without the background in math, they are going to write rotten code.
17. Menachme Mendel Shneerson would not be impressed with this
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (02.05.13)
The Lubbavitcher Rebbe was not only fluent in several languages, he had a degree in engineering too. The entire concept of trying to turn tens of thousands of haredim into full time "talmidim chachamim" is ludicrous. Jews never, ever did that. Every community collected money to send the best and the brightest to the best yeshivas, not every shmendrik. Everybody else went out and worked for a living.
18. Haradim and Arabs act the same
William ,   Israel   (02.05.13)
When trying to end discrimination between groups in Israel by making the rights and obligations equal across them all, these groups claim "discrimination". It must be nice to live in a bubble of ones own making then demand the State and its citizens pay for it all. It is a discrimination to NOT demand core studies by everyone in Israel, and a human rights issue against kids who will be ensured a future of ignorance should they not learn these core studies. ....perhaps, that is the point of the Haradim and Arabs in rejecting such equalizing programs.
19. Try the Montessori school method
William ,   Israel   (02.05.13)
Everyone learns the core studies, then with remaining time learns subjects important to them and their community. It aids in future communication between all groups in Israel, it ensures a love of learning as students focus on what interests them, and it allows a community to retain what makes it unique in this ME democratic melting pot.
20. For the religious in this crowd....
William ,   Israel   (02.05.13)
The Tenach states - an obligation of every parent is to teach their child Torah, a trade, and how to swim. I am not convinced that most of the Haradim are following this important obligation. A dip in the Mikveh is not "swimming", studying Torah is not a "trade".
21. Haim, TA, very well said but she is not "dear".
Michael ,   California, USA   (02.05.13)
Anybody who is supporting ignorance in the name of religion is a fanatic and fanatics cannot be dear to us. As you correctly pointed out, Jrebecca from Modiin doesn't even know what religion is and how much retardation is caused by it. Likewise, the writer of this Ynet diatribe doesn't know what he is talking about while relying on invented "facts" metzutzim min ha'etzba. It's a high time for educating fanatics in Israel and the core subjects should be the starting minimum.
22. education
reuven ,   israel   (02.05.13)
You obviously are living in a different country. The government does not pay for chadorim- I, the parent has to pay for my sons education. Yes, there are bible studies in the non-religious schools- but they aren't learning Torah! Maybe instead of believing the anti -Semitic propaganda that is being broadcasted to you day and night about the charedim-go to a charedi neighborhood and get the real facts
MISSION IMPOSIBLE: CONVERTING revolting HEREDIACS/HEREDIEISTS INTO ... MENCHES...oy! ( Being a MENCH allows you to be as Jewish as you want to be...yes, Jewish people who are Israeli patriots, supporters of the state that shields, feeds, nurtures and protects your kids, your family and house.) And who protects to the death your very right to be any kind of JEWISH PERSON you feel you need to be? Your fellow sharers of democracy... Period. Be free to be as Jewish in your wonderful democracy as you wish to be...just ask any Mench...you are what you think you are.
24. William 20
Dear William,it is a trade when money is involved and it becomes big business when there are negotiations and trade off's You are asking the secular to fund a group of people that do NOTHING they are bringing nothing to society except division and animosity Learn the Torah in the evening after working for a living
25. While in Israel for three months, I rented a car...
Robert ,   USA   (02.05.13)
and since hitch-hiking is a good way for many young people to get around, I would pick them up from time to time. From experience I learned not to pick up yeshiva students because I don't speak Hebrew and most of them didn't speak English (apologies for my not learning Hebrew, but I am not Israeli), and the rides were awkward. I did pick up one ultra-orthodox man going around the old city. He spoke English well, had a small personal computer and two smart phones which he was on all the time; he was 43 years old, had 10 children and no job.
26. #2 Continued.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (02.05.13)
As to the article's references about discrimination in jobs, it is referring to cases where the qualifications are equal or equivalent. Two examples, one of which was brought up in the article - the public service has a notoriously low percentage of ultra-Orthodox employees, and there are plenty of ultra-Orthodox who meed the job requirements. Further, public service is required to hire minorities favorably, or to at least correct past discrimination - hence favorable hiring policies for Israeli Arabs, to name one example. But here's the rub - since there's no *legal definition* of ultra-Orthodox as a minority group, the old policies of not hiring too many "different" Jews is in effect. A second, more recent example? Programmers and QA testers, a field more than a few ultra-Orthodox go into. Except they have a much lower pay compared to their "normal" equivalents in the companies - even when they have the same training and experience. Haredim are currently seen as a cheap labor force in the hi-tech industry. And yes, there's plenty of discrimination going on here. More than a few businesses force people to work on Saturday (laws against that tend to be ignored, particularly when the municipality is turning a blind eye - Tel Aviv being a prime example), and then you have people not hiring those who would "scare off the customers", or "not act socially in the company", or "looks too different".
27. So why Haredim discriminate against all others?
Barbara ,   Haifa Israel   (02.05.13)
As for the word 'core' in core subjects - it should be changed to basic studies. I can't help but put Haredim right next to Muslim fanatics with their burqas, small minds, etc.
28. wow...
Jeff ,   USA   (02.05.13)
this was probably the single stupidest thing i've ever read in my life... and I don't say that lightly.
29. #2 Regarding education funding.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (02.05.13)
Only those education streams that under the direct jurisdiction and oversight of the Education Ministry enjoy "free education" (though as many parents will testify, it isn't quite "free" either, but that's a different subject). Essentially, you only get "free" education if you send your child to a public, government-run and sponsored, school. When it comes to ultra-Orthodox schools who are under no or partial oversight, the government funding is partial to none. The "Recognized But Unofficial" education stream encompasses ultra-Orthodox schools that are under the Education Ministry's partial oversight, but which are run privately, have great freedom at designing the curriculum and study methods, and are only partially funded (25%-50%, if memory serves). Complementing them are *entirely private* ultra-Orthodox schools which enjoy absolutely no state funding whatsoever. And in these schools, free education does not apply. As to upper education in Israel, university study is heavily (read, almost entirely) subsidized through the Ministry of Education, something most people around here forget about when they complain about the high costs of education (which are not, in fact, all that high after the subsidies).
30. Yeshivas are not universities
Wade ,   NYC USA   (02.05.13)
Despite the author's efforts to convince otherwise, yeshivas and kolels are not equivalent to universities. Universities have attendance requirements and examinations that measure students' success. The Charedi student in kolel or yeshiva can probably hunker down there forever, even if he learns nothing. One insider revealed that a large % of yeshiva students in their 20s just hide from the draft and are not serious students.
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