Bennett: Army service a mitzvah
Mora Azulay
Published: 12.02.13, 19:40
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29 Talkbacks for this article
1. bennett
moshe ,   Holon   (02.12.13)
a true zionist, and jew. I agree with everything he said, torah is very important but even in biblical times people fit for war went. after service you can always return to your studying with greater passion because you helped out your fellow jew which is more important because "bein adam le chavero" (between man and his friend) is more important than "bein adam le makom" (between man and the world[G-d]) G-d bless bennett, G-d bless the chayalim and G-d bless israel
2. Is Bennett the Messiah? Probably not, but its a good start..
B"H ,   Jerusalem   (02.12.13)
First we must explain to the world that morally, historically and LEGALLY this is OUR LAND. And we must work together to heal all Jews and bring them together, not apart as Shas has done. Control of Religious Services must go to Bennett and Bayit Yehudi.
3. I like this guy
Daniel ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (02.12.13)
OH YEA!!! ,   Israel   (02.12.13)
Can you imagine Bibi having the guts to say this?
5. Israel is one!
Liam ,   USA   (02.12.13)
It's about time we reunite as one! One Torah one nation! Religious or not we are all in it together!
6. Again, comparing army and Torah
Northern   (02.12.13)
This new age, 'even stevens' attitude that sees everything as just two sides of the same coin is getting out of control. Torah studies are NOT an existential interest of anything. Military service is. I can, any day now, prove that having a strong army is important for a country in conflict. I can show a direct correlation between a powerful army, and the state's ability to defend itself. I can actually demonstrate the causal link between the two. The fact that having a good army is important to the state's survival is not a matter of belief, it's not a personal opinion, you can't agree to disagree about it. It's a well demonstrable fact. Can you demonstrate that Torah studies are also important? Can you show the causal link between having a bunch of Torah scholars and the state's ability to defend itself? This is just a false "fair and balanced" argument.
7. There is a time for everything
Mike ,   Ramla   (02.12.13)
A time to study, and a time to rest a time to fight and a time to speak A time to work and a time to pray No more sacred cows are to be tolerated in Israel.Every citizen must serve the defence and the well being of the State.All jews must serve the army,along with druzes.All muslims must serve a civil-social service.Each draft.dodger will be punished with loss of social rghts .
8. Kol Hakavod!
olim hadashim ,   tel aviv/israel   (02.12.13)
9. #3 Daniel,I was about to post exactly the same words!
Keren ,   IL-BR   (02.12.13)
10. 100% agree in Israel we are not professing
NATAN ,   ISRAEL   (02.12.13)
judaism any more, the haredi sector is practissing the Rabidolatry and they want all of us to do the same.
Esther ,   Selkirk Canada   (02.12.13)
12. #6, Powerful arguments, well said.
Michael ,   California, USA   (02.12.13)
If Torah studies protected anything, the six millions wouldn't have died.
13. When the haredi sector understand
NATAN ,   ISRAEL   (02.12.13)
than the Judaism and the Jewish people are bigger than the Halaha, we are going to grow as a nation and like a nice family, we have a lot of outside enemies, and I want to remember the worst enemy of Jewish people in history is the radicalism of our detractor's. Like some Mexican say, betwen the nations and the people the repect to the others rights is the peace. Benito Juarez say that in 17 century.
14. If you really feel like this Naftali,
shadoil ,   Jerusalem   (02.12.13)
then find a logical comprimise like a mature adult.
15. #6 Not a single military simulation says we could have won
Jrebecca ,   Modiin   (02.12.13)
any of our wars, especially the first two, when we were very week. In 1967 the Arabs were far stronger then us, yet we won. If you think humans won that war alone, you probably think JC walked on water.
16. I LIKE Bennet !!!!!!!!!
Chris Rettenmoser ,   Bayerisch Gmain Germ   (02.12.13)
17. Oh, Northern How Mistaken you are
Nachum ,   Bet Shemesh, Israel   (02.12.13)
I will demonstrate for you. Lets go back to the Gulf war when 39 Scud Missles landed in Israel. The IDF did not do anything (for political reasons) and yet there were thousands of stories or Miracles that happened and thousands of lives were saved. Not by the IDF, but By HaKadosh Baruch in the Zchu's of all the Torah being learnt as well as the Teffilos and Tehillim being said.
18. Night Seder
David G   (02.12.13)
Their are many religious Jews around the world who work during the day and learn at night. I do not think it would kill young Haredi men to do the same thing for two years while either in the army or national service.
19. to #6 and #12
Ilan ,   Ramat Gan, Israel   (02.12.13)
I understand why you feel that, but you are wrong! if you don't Believe, then what do you fight for? what are you willing to die for? Glory? Fame? Respect? Were any of you in the IDF? i'm not very religious myself, but i respect it. i respect that my friends actually believe that bullets that should have hit them miraculously flew past during combat, because they did tfilin that and every morning! They had motivation, peace of mind! i didn't and i was scared shitless all the time! how do you know what motivated Israeli's of past to win those impossible wars? You don't have to believe it, but you can't say learning the Torah is not important. Its what we are, who we are!
ZIONIST FOREVER   (02.12.13)
Forgetting all this political speak about equal share of the burden I would like to know why all this haredi draft is so important to everybody? Will it give us more security? Will it benefit the economy? Will it advance the peace process? Will it make the rest if the world like us? will it help the army thats trying to cut down on man power to save money? How will a haredi draft benefit society? Seems to me the real reason for this obsession has nothing to do with this idea of sharing the burden and more to do with the fact everybody loves to hate hared and if it were any other group at all it wouldn't be an issue.
21. #17
Once again, all you have is anecdotal evidence. A few stories here, a few stories there. This isn't evidence. It's called "cherry picking". You look at the entire war, and you pick and choose the events that confirm your world view. This is basically how religion works. If something good happens - aha! that's the hand of god! See? There was a miracle! If something bad happens - well, that's because we didn't pray enough/didn't study enough Torah/god wanted to convey a message/so on and so on... It's like a train wreck with hundreds of casualties, and a few survivors. Everybody points out at the one baby that survived, and calling it a miracle, completely ignoring hundreds of other dead men, women and children in this tragedy. Sorry, not buying it. Or, like an earthquake that destroys many buildings, but among the few buildings still standing is a synagogue (or some other house of worship). They completely ignore all the other buildings that are destroyed, and point out to the one synagogue that survived. They also ignore all the other earthquakes and tragedies where no synagogues survived. They're basically fishing for one in a billion instance where their world view is confirmed. This isn't science. It's cherry-picking, and to force everybody else to study the bible as a 'national interest', you're going to have to do better than this! As I said in my previous post, Israel itself is an unlikely story, but unlikely doesn't equal miraculous. In all its wars, there were amazing things that happened, and when you do something good and then give god all the credit, it's at this point that your hypothesis becomes unfalsifiable.
22. #21
moshe ,   nyc   (02.13.13)
Just because you don't believe in Judaism doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't. The fact of the matter is almost every single Israeli war was won on miraculous circumstances and would not be a victory for the Israelis in any army simulation. Israel is a Jewish state, and always will be with Jerusalem being the undivided capital. If you can't respects some aspects of Jewish life then that doesn't give you the right to ruin it for other people.
23.  Mr. "Zionist Forever" #20,
pinchas ,   boston   (02.13.13)
who is always whitwashing the chareidi, should be called Chareidi Forever. His argument that israelis want to draft the Chareidi because they hate the Chareidi and not because they want equal distribution of the burden puts the cart before thehorse. IF the Charedi shared the burden and weren't such parasites, they wouldn't be hated! It's that simple. HIs defense is parochial and bogus.
24. But will he respect other views
Aaron Kuperman ,   Baltimore, MD   (02.13.13)
A considerable portion of the Hareidi community disagrees, and feels believes that Israel has no halachic claim, and therefore killing Arab civilians is murder. In most western countries, it would be unthinkable to conscript someone with a religious or moral objection to serving in the army. Do the zionists feel so strongly that they will throw people in prison for disagreeing with them on religious questions - and do they not fear that the rest of the world will be disinclinced to support a country that persecutes people because of religion?
25. Bennet gave a very good speech
Cipora Julianna Kohn ,   Z   (02.13.13)
now he must do the essential and let netanyahu form a gobernment as soon as possible. bennet should beware of the populist lapid.
26. #15
SteveR ,   dallas usa   (02.13.13)
In 1967, there were 400 Haredi exemptions. In 1977 Begin lifted all restrictions on the number of exemptions and the Israeli performance in war has declined ever since. So I guess 400 is the magic number and you would support going back to that number exactly as Lapid suggests.
27. Our only claim to the land is from G-d/Torah
P'd off yid ,   South of tel aviv-Is   (02.13.13)
and for no other reason. So if you believe in neither there is nothing for you to fight for and please get the hell out of my country!
28. #22
Northern   (02.13.13)
Again, this is just your anecdotal evidence. We hear these anecdotes from Christians, Muslims, and followers of various religions, but the fact remains that you can't present evidence that any miracle occurred. You can just cherry-pick events that are unlikely or amazing. I agree: unlikely and amazing events occur. What of it? You're right. I do not believe in Judaism or any other religion. I am an atheist. But I'm not trying to ruin anything for anybody. All I want is for religion to be a personal matter. Some people choose to express their Judaism by being Orthodox, others want to express it by following the reform or conservative movements, other still want to express their Judaism/Jewishness in some other way. By all means, please do. But keep the government out of it. Don't let the government dictate what is proper Judaism and what is not. Don't force secular kids to study religious texts. If their parents will want them to know it, they'll teach them. There are people who believe in Judaism, and there are people who are good, contributing, Israeli citizens who express their connection to Am Israel in some other way. Religious belief is a subjective matter, while the necessity for a strong army is not. That's why I say that as long as there's a need for a strong army, everybody has to serve in it, but not everybody has to study Torah. It's a false equivalency. I want to live in a country where you have all the freedom of religion in the world, while I have all the freedom from religion, that I need.
29. Khareidim are, indeed, our brothers, but...
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   (02.13.13)
The Ultra-Orthodox are misled. I, too, served with dear brothers who knew how to study the Torah and carry a stretcher; how to learn the Gemara and storm the enemy during battle. Neither the Ultra-Orthodox nor their European medievalism represents Torah OR Halakhah. It's axiomatic among Torah Jews that ha-Sheim is the Creator. Ergo, Halakhah can only be authentic and valid when it is compatible with the Orderliness (formal Logic and Math) of the Creator of our universe. Only educated and intelligent Jews, sons of Light, can discern authentic Halakhah; not ignorance-dependent (sons of Darkness), Europeanist and Medievalist, intolerant mongers of arrogance and hate. That ain't Judaism or Torah or Halakhah and that Truth must be squarely confronted if moderate Torah Jews are to restore authentic Halakhah. The Ultra-Orthodox need to educate themselves out of their ignorant Europeanism and Medievalism to an intelligent perspective of Torah and Halakhah, becoming sons of Light to the world instead of insisting on guarding their ignorance (darkness) from Light.
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