'Dead Mossad agent' affair revealed
Published: 13.02.13, 08:35
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1. so must believe in this too?
Larry ,   Los Angeles   (02.13.13)
So, they say he killed himself leaving a wife and two children? We must believe the authorities? Hmmmmm? Sounds strange.
2. what also sounds strange
Tzila ,   Modiin, Israel   (02.13.13)
is that he was jailed since 2010. March, 2010 was the botched assassination in Dubai.
3. Do we know WHY he was ....
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (02.13.13)
.... a security prisoner? Do we know his political bent? Israel does not imprison random individuals as security prisoners without ample proof? Was Ben Allen, in fact, someone who passed along information to an ersatz "Palestinian" terrorist group? Was he another Vanunu? We need more information, obviously. Which may be difficult to obtain, given the prominence of his family. But if he was acting in contravention of Israeli law -- and human normality -- it's a good thing he committed suicide. Saves us the trouble of hanging him. But he was imprisoned for a reason. He was not randomly plucked off the street. Israel does not operate that way. He did SOMETHING in contravention of Israeli law; possibly something which endangered every Israeli. Let's wait to pass judgment until we have all the facts. Due process is one thing. Treason and espionage is quite another, and traitors and spies cannot claim protection under Israel's laws. Can't do it in the United States, either, by the way. Just ask the several thousand security prisoners that reside in Guantanamo; some of them since 2001. Security prisoner. Do keep that in mind. Israel's security is of greater importance that someone's corrupt and deceitful political views. He did SOMETHING. Something bad. And his family's wealth and prominence in Australia do not diminish that. Whatever he did, he did in Israel, and Israel is well within its rights to confine him without benefit of contact without right of consult of the nation of his citizenship (unless he was also a citizen of Israel, in which case Israel has every right). Isn't that precisely what the United States does in Guantanamo? I'll save you the trouble of looking that up. Yes, that is what the United States does with persons imprisoned in Guantanamo without right of due process. Certain things are ALWAYS outside of the law. Terrorism, contributing to terrorist acts, actively engaging in terrorist acts and financing terrorist acts against the United States WILL land you in Guantanamo. Why should Israel, whose concerns are far more realistic and immediate, be held to a different standard?
4. He was found hanged in a cell ,...
split ,   US   (02.13.13)
Who hanged him there? ,...
5. @ 2 - botched?
fred nerks   (02.13.13)
due to allegations that it was ordered by the Israeli government and carried out by Mossad?? hardly a botch, LOL!
6. Disgrace.
JR ,   Melbourne   (02.13.13)
I'm an Australian Jew and Zionist. I am dismayed that it seems Hamas treated Shalit better than the Israeli government treated a Jew, Israeli citizen, former state employee and father of two. Assuming prisoner X was him (and I knew him personally, not as well as others) and he did something illegal - however horrendous - charge him, try him and sentence. Disposing of him in this way demeans Israel and all who support her and believe in her.
7. why was he in jail thou
jeff ,   bev .hills ca   (02.13.13)
israel isnt north korea, obviously he must of been some massive risk or criminal, why was he in jail?
8. #3
Tomek ,   Poland   (02.13.13)
An Australian cannot commit treason against Israel. If you claim that spies cannot claim protection under Israeli law, why do you always throw a tantrum when a tearjerker about this fat spy incarcerated in the US is published. Just because Americans break international law on the regular basis by locking up people without due process ad infinitum, it does not mean it is acceptable. Israel cannot copy illegal actions of a bigger bully and expect the same level of impunity. And murdering an inmate is surely not kosher.
9. Ateret Cohanim link
Anon ,   Anon   (02.13.13)
Zygier's Bnei Avika Madrich in the Mizrachi shul in Melbourne is a well-known activist for Yeshivat Ateret HaCohanim. There is no doubt that Zygier had very close ties to the Israeli far right.
10. #6 JR
oren ,   tlv   (02.13.13)
i love when people say the stupidest things.... treated worse than hamas treated shalit??? are u serious
11. It is also most unlikely......
Robert ,   Australia   (02.13.13)
.....that he committed suicide in a suicide-proof cell. Did the state have him killed?
12. @#8: It says he moved to Israel
Avi Ze'ev ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (02.13.13)
Sounds like he made aliyah. Which means he's an Israeli citizen.
13. #3 'Sarah B'
Sarah B ,   Tel Aviv/London   (02.13.13)
That is what is so scandalous about this case., he was held under a false name, with no recourse to the Israeli legal system, no contact with his family and the Australian consulate was not informed about his incarceration. During this incarceration the individual killed himself in a cell specifically designed to prevent suicide which an Israeli court had banned the governemnt from using Then when the individual was named by the Australian Broadcasting Company and it was plastered all over the web the Israeli government issued a gag order to prevent Israelis from knowing about it. This story is straight out of North Korea and if Netanyahu thinks it is alright to do this to this man, it means every single Israeli and dual passport holder can at anytime be arrested without trial, held under a false name indefinitely, that is unacceptable in any country which believes it is a democracy, even in Guantanamo Bay the inmates have access to lawyers As for hiding behind the veneer of National Security, do you really trust a politician to decide what is in the interest of national security? Really?
14. Saddiest and worst case i have ever come across
John Doe ,   AU...........   (02.13.13)
There better be a very very good reason for this.Though no one,no one at all should ever have to be treated like this.As a staunch Zionist,who served in the IDF,with pride.I have a very bad taste in my mouth.My sympathies go to his family,and friends.
15. Hard to believe that this could happen to a Jew in Israel
John Doe ,   AU...........   (02.13.13)
16. Disgrace.
JR   (02.13.13)
Being reasonable, yes, I was being deliberately inflammatory. Nevertheless, convince me that my assertion is wrong. Last I checked, Shalit was at the basketball, and good for him. This man's family was not so lucky. Hamas is a terror organisation. Israel is meant to be a democracy governed by the rule of law. Take this episode and prove that assertion. Disgrace.
17. Sarah, as hypocritical as usual
jj   (02.13.13)
"Let's wait to pass judgment until we have all the facts. " followed by conjecture and speculation such as him passing secrets, endangering every Israeli coming out her ears and then, "He did SOMETHING. Something bad." Either you call to wait for all the facts before you judge or speculate, or you dont. you go the complete opposite and the only thing you are asking not to be judged is Israel, not this man and his family. nothing too surprising from Virginia as usual.
18. Australian Suspected in Burgas Bus Bombing!
David ,   Israel   (02.13.13)
I think the Australians protest too much! Zygier or Alon was imprisoned for a reason. In spite of the comments by MK Lieberman -EX Foreign Minister who is facing trial on CRIMINAL charges, Israel is a democracy and not a Stalinist State, like his friend Putin's Russia, and he should keep his mouth SHUT!
19. #6 what disgrace, #8 treason
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (02.13.13)
Nobel peace prize laureate Obama has unconstitutionally taken the power to execute without trial anyone he wants: commited a crime or not, citizen or not. No lawyer, no judge, no evidence. In this case there was a crime, there was evidence, there was a trial. Start with the big fish Obama before you start whining about the tiny minnow Israel. #8 If Mr. X was a Mossad agent he can hardly hide behind his alleged Australian citizenship. By joining a foreign intelligence agency he in fact gave up his Australian citizenship. In any case, the rest of your letter has nothing to do with the facts we know. Pollard was tried and received an unconstitutionally harsh punishment. That is a violation of American law. Apparently, Mr. X had due process and was tried. Your allegation he was murdered is baseless. Obama does not break International Law by locking up people: Gitmo is legal under International Law. Obama breaks International Law by targeting medics, by violating borders, by violating UNSC resoltutions and by shooting unarmed enemy soldiers.
20. #10 Oren
Sarah B ,   Tel Aviv/London   (02.13.13)
If I remember rightly Shalit was allowed to exchange letters with his family, played computer games, and even he admitted after the first days and weeks he was well treated, and more importantly Shalit is now back home with his family. So yes on balance I think you can say Shalit was treated better by Hamas than Ben Zygier who apparently killed himself in a prison cell which was specifically designed to prevent such things happening, whilst under the gaze of his prison guards who didn't even know his name. If you find that acceptable, I really hope they do not come for you next
21. As long as it's been cleared for publication
Gracey ,   Tel Aviv   (02.13.13)
they should have revealed what he was in prison for, no?
22. Stupid people create stupid fantasies
Frank ,   USA   (02.13.13)
Read above! So many fantasies! So much stupidity.
23. Dont forget folks........
Socrates ,   Ashdot Yaakov   (02.13.13)
The on;y democracy in the middle east. God help democracy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
24. #22 Sarah
Claude   (02.13.13)
Non of us is finding anything acceptable with so few details. On the face of it it sounds bad but false comparisons are not adding the any debate, especially to a debate about Israelis or Jews where such practices are used for demonisation rather than getting to the bottom of the matter. Your memory regarding Shalit's captured conditions require refreshing, And we know next to nothing of the conditions of Ben's incarceration. Jumping the gun with such comparison is just wrong on every honest scale I know.
25. #6
david ,   jerusalem   (02.13.13)
Well Shalit is alive, isn't he?
26. USA is a democracy and look at what they did to Pollard
Johnny ,   TA, Israel   (02.13.13)
27. #26 Johnny
Sarah B ,   Tel Aviv/London   (02.13.13)
Yes Pollard is denied prison association, health care, visits by his family, visits by Israeli ambassadors and politicions acces to media newspapers etc. His guards also know his real name, and the last timne I heard Pollard hadn't hanged himself in a supposedly suicide proof cel;l constantly monitored by CCTV
28. Tragedy
Ros ,   Tel Aviv   (02.13.13)
But what did his wife and children do at the time - did they not ask where he had gone - the Australian family didn't worry that they had not heard from him - something is very strange with this story!!
29. Bunch of Geese,
Norbus ,   Jerusalem   (02.13.13)
Most TBs here want their cake and eat it Why did Tibi and Gal On rake things up? Iran splashed vast sums on anything to destabilise region, dominate and wipe up Israel You question democracy; Was it democracy to send Jews to the Gas Chambers? Yes? No? Well, Israel tries to avoid a repetition
30. Nobody wanted to be interviewed
M ,   Melbourne   (02.13.13)
Every country's security service acts against the law. That is part and parcel of the work. I am from Melbourne and telaviv. I am also a dual citizen and like Ben, attended mount scopus college and bialik college. My office is a few minutes from where Ben is buried. However, I did not know Ben. What I will say is this. If Ben was not Australian, this would an internal Israeli matter. This would not be an international issue. And.for those who say vanunu was an international issue, this was only because he spent time in australia, blabbed like a bluthering moron and was illegally captured by Mossad in Europe. Like MI5, the CIA and ASIO have never acted illegally? So, Ben was Australian and there is an outcry? Folks, this outcry is not coming from Bens family or friends, or from any Australians I know! Bens family and friends declined to be interviewed when approached by ABC. Why? What did they know? Did they themselves suspect something? Wouldn't a grieving parent demand answers? Wouldn't a family member speak on their behalf if they truly wanted to gather answers and hold the perpetrators accountable? Even the Australian embassy n tel aviv declined to be interviewed. Think about it. The answers lie in this silence. And as far as judging Israel to a standard that is different to any other election holding democratic country with a secret service that incarcerates people that are deemed security risks from time to time, remember this.... No other country has its survival at stake like Israel. If Israel takes its eye off the ball, it is gone! The world questions it's capital city and its right to build there. So, if you judge Israel, I ask you to judge every single country. If you demand answers (that seemingly bens family do not demand) then demand answers from every country that incarcerates security risks. However if only Israel must provide answers, well, there is terminology to describe that. The first word is "anti"
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