It's always like : "Hey, if we please the bums, we'll sweep the market". Two attempts are widely known, circa 16 centuries ago, and other 13. By the way, the older one has a leading position vacant. He should apply there, to see if he's up to the task, before trying to break the real one.

viding, power-hungry organization? It is their internal affair. As much as I recognize the fact, that our religion is the cause of us being here today, I don't see why it deserves to be pampered to in the future. Now that we're here: let's get it on!( to cite a certain song) It certainly won't be the Imaginary Friend, that will assure our continuous presence here: he didn't care for 2000 years, he won't care for another 300000.

It'll be nice to see Israel run by Judaism, instead of by extremism. I don't think there can be religious-recognized homosexual partnerships, but legally-recognized ones are a different matter, imo. As for female rabbis, depends what they want to do with the 'degree,' There are plenty of rabbinical jobs that don't require a man. No reason not to give a woman the same credentials, even if she can't lead K'dusha.

This way the Orthos won't control peoples lives and the government won't get itself involved in the corrupting world of religious communal politics!

As an orthodox Jew who is also gay, reading about this topic just becomes more and more depressing.

In the diaspora we can safely ignore the rabbinate and allow ourselves to get worked up over the undue influence of religions in law making. All this stuff coming out of Israel is very off putting. It is as though the world didn't change by the existence of an ethnic Jewish state just as things changed when the Jewish state was eliminated two thousand years ago. If the rabbinate in Israel is non-zionist then surely it should have only a small role in a Zionist state.

ever invented and promulgated by Man is God with all the ensuing nonsense that comes in scriptures and tenets etc. This institution should be abolished, the post of Minister of Religion should be abolished. We do not require a "Pope" in our country, our nation or our land.

in the world... is to take religious services out of the hands of the Heredim. They use it as a money maker for themselves but they could care less about helping anyone else. The entire system is a Chillul HaShem.

Moshe an Orthodox gay is like being an Orthodox pork eater or an Orthodox who drives on Shabbat. You may be a gay who keeps many or most Jewish traditions but you are certainly not Orthodox.

There are two chief rabbis. If Shlomo Amar remains and opposes any and all changes how will Stav succeed? Will the Chief Rabbinate Council also be re-selected? Rabbi Stav needs to set up a training program for communal rabbis to train them to deal with the public respectfully. The Israeli religious establishment is based on England, but it lacks the finesse and 'feel good factor' of either the C of E or the Chief Rabbinate.

let religious insitutions flourish--but on their own nickel. Why should the state mingle in this? The whole thing is a matter of power--and power, as the cliche goes, does corrupt.

that doesn't include Saudi Arabia, Yemen, the Gulf states, Indonesia, etc. There should be one place that is run as a Jewish republic, and that is Israel. There is no reason, other than Tana'kh for Jews to be there. Those who want to throw away Judaism can live in the US or elsewhere. I don't think there should be religious police forcing men to the synagogue three times a day, but kashrut in public places, quiet Shabbat, Jewish weddings, etc., should be the norm of a Jewish country. It really isn't that difficult.

If you are secular you should take pride in your belief. That means fighting for a clear and logical argument as an alternative to religion. So it would follow that there is no need for a rabbi to speak for you. If you are not really secular and want to keep a foot in both camps just in case you will be punished when you pass away and not be recognized as as Jewish by the doorman then I guess its OK for Rabbi Stav to help you out.

I do not understand why state has to have anything to do with religion.What does those who teach about God want power for and never trust a religious teacher who wants to choose a political leader.The two should be independent of the other.

So, let me get this straight. In your view Israel is not the homeland for Jews. It is only the homeland for those Jews who are content to live in a theocratically-run (albeit without religious police) Israel. Correct?

It's the homeland for Jews who want to live as Jews, not as gentiles. There are many countries where a Jew can do that. What I am advocating is pretty much the way Israel was until the left took over. Decades ago, almost everything was closed on Shabbat, Chilonim went to the beach. Jewish restaurants were either dairy or meat. If you wanted pork, you went to a Christian restaurant. The founders understood what it meant to be a Jew. Now the left wants every country to be secular and immoral, with homosexuality, drugs, atheism, gambling, etc. I object to a Jewish country being run by your religious police, the police of atheism and liberalism. Look at the article on the left imposing itself on storeowners in Brooklyn. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4347157,00.html

The fact that you are politicising the issue in a simplistic manner, caricaturing the 'left', says much about your agenda. My point is simple. The founders understood very clearly what it meant to be a Jew and, accordingly, instituted the Law of Return which refers to all those who are accepted (halachically) as Jews. As far as I know, it doesn't anywhere qualify this to say that the Law of Return did not refer to Jews who wished to live as'gentiles', 'homosexuals', or 'atheists'. The character of the Israeli state is something else and I guess, like any other democracy, is subject to the actions of legislators who, in turn, are accountable to the electorate. Now, if you and others want the state to continue to be based on religious laws that is your choice but others may wish to debate that and argue for something different - and that is their choice.

Israel should be a homeland for Jews, but Jews who come to Israel should expect that that Jewish state have a Jewish character. A Jew who comes and doesn't want the Star of David on the flag, or wants a holiday tree in December, or wants to eat pork everywhere really doesn't want to live in a Jewish country. And the state isn't "based on religious laws". Some functions are based on religious practice, but it's pretty easy to work around them. So what if a Jewish couple goes to Cypress for a civil marriage. It's no big deal. They can still come back and have a party with their families. I heard David Stav speak in the US, and I didn't like what he says. He's creating a religious war in the Jewish community. We have enough problems with Conservative, Reform, Reconstruction, Messianic Jews, etc. He's just adding to the mess, and for what purpose? To dilute Judaism so that it's more palatable to secular Jews. Let them be part of the other movements. He's not much of a rabbi, in my opinion, if his objective is to attack the people who actually follow Torah and observe mitzvahs.

of many of the Haredim to be Jewish practices? For example, the marginalization of women in so many ways - e.g., putting the burden on women so men will not hear them sing, deleting their images from advertisements and from the public sphere, not allowing them to give eulogies at the funerals of their husbands or fathers, not permitting victims of child sexual abuse to report it to the police, and when they do, are vilified, threatened, and shunned by their haredi community, having self-appointed thugs roam the streets acting as modesty squads hassling women if they are not deessed modestly enough, tolerating haredi rabbis making fatwa-like statements on the minutiae of daily life, etc, etc, etc. These don't seem to be Jewish values to me. Is this the Israel you want in the future, because you will get it as the Hardi population grows. Is this what you want?

At No. 17 you made your position clear and your post here reinforces that position. Quite simply, you want an Israel which continues to discriminate against non-orthodox and secular Jews. I am sure it is a sincerely held position.

Including in these discussions the religious Levites and Kohens would bring credence to their role for spiritually guiding Israel. There could be a more active role by those of this tribe. The Levites have an inheritance forever. The prophet Malachi gave prophesy of a sacrifice by the Levites which would be pleasant to the Lord as in the days of old. The descendants of the tribe of Levi would know they would have a role in the future of Judaism and these too are issues of the sake of all the goodness of Zion. The Levites could appoint a council and issue edicts.