Lapid, Bennett to push joint draft plan
Moran Azulay
Published: 23.02.13, 23:59
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18 Talkbacks for this article
1. Unless they have a conscientious objection option
Aaron Kuperman ,   Baltimore, MD   (02.24.13)
A not insignificant number of hareidim are saying "I'm busy learning" rather than saying "Your medinah is against halacha, therefore your war with the goyim violates Torah law, and I refuse to serve". Such individual will refuse to serve under any condition (and typically also refuse to accept money from the government). Up to now they would say they are learning (which all Orthodox Jews do, and the law doesn't require learning a normal full time of 60+ hours a week). If the law doesn't allow such persons to stay exempt, they will become open refusers, and as a consequence no other hareidim will consider any compromise, and the many who now serve will probably start refusing as well.
2. What About The Livni Issue?
Bill Stein ,   USA   (02.24.13)
What About The Livni Issue?
3. This time I voted Bibi, next time I'll vote Bennett
Yossef   (02.24.13)
4. "Equal Burden" includes us, draft Arabs also please
Ahmad ,   Bitiah   (02.24.13)
5. Is there any chance ....
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (02.24.13)
.... that haredi Jews could be drafted into teaching positions? I think it might be useful to have them teach Torah and Talmud classes to our soldiers. I think it would benefit both the teachers and students. The haredi could also be trained and deployed as medics. They would not necessarily have to be deployed exclusively within a military context. There are lots of hospitals that could use the assistance, and lots of Israeli schoolchildren that could use a better acquaintance with their faith. Putting a soldier that is unsuited for combat in a combat unit endangers the entire unit. There is plenty to be done in other aspects. Yes, I believe that military or national service should be compulsory, but let the haredim serve doing that which they do best -- study, teach and work as part of an ambulance team.
6. Get the Shas out of the min.of int.!!!
Markus   (02.24.13)
7. They can fight
Jake ,   Haifa   (02.24.13)
I have seen Haredi By the hundreds throw rocks, overturn trash cans, riot - all over the secular driving on shabbat on "their" roads (that they pay no taxes to keep up). They were not studying and they seemed to have plenty of excess energy and hostility. They certainly have the energy to spit on women and yell. They can fight.
8. if they're good enuf 4 mishmarot tzniyut
oferdesade ,   israel   (02.24.13)
... they're good enuf 4 gaza/hebron/lebanon... no use being a big strong hoodlum if it's only against women in short dresses.
9. netanyahu
Jeff ,   USA   (02.24.13)
When/why did likud ever get so "in bed" with the haredim, and what is so "natural" about their alliance?? really having some trouble understanding why netanyahu's being so difficult on this...
10. why is everybody so obsessed with the haredi?
zionist forever   (02.24.13)
Is the haredi draft going to solve problems like stopping Iran getting nukes or dealing with economic issues? What exactly will it achieve other than making a bunch o secular people feel like they got one over on the haredi who they hate so much? The IDF neither wants or needs them in an age of budget cuts and slimming down the army? If the army doesn't want or need them then why is the rest of the country so obsessed with this idea of equal share of the burden, even if you take the IDF wishes out the picture whats the equal share of the burden idea going to do to benefit society? Lapid got 19 seats and may even end up PM if Bibi was forced to hold an election now because he couldnt get a coalition together and the main reason Lapid is as popular as he is because he made the haredi draft the main focus of his campaign. People didn't vote based on serious issues that affect us they cared about the haredi draft. Whatever you think of the idea of the haredi isn't it time we stopped treating it as a national priority and instead spend more time focusing on serious political issues that affect us all instead of forcing the haredi into the army because everybody loves to hate haredi?
11. Haredi Girls Should Serve Too
Chaim Ben Kahan ,   Efrat, Israel   (02.24.13)
Haredi girls should serve precisely because they have babies at 18. These are not baby factories and the Haredi women should also be integrated into Israeli society.
12. # 5 Sarah B. Normally there is a
Sagi   (02.24.13)
great deal of logic in what you post, albeit with fiery rhetoric and an unfettered diatribe, but this time you are well out off kilter. Two points, teaching Torah and Talmud in the military, that is not what the armed forces are for, on top of that, when a lecturer or performer is invited to a military unit it is compulsory to attend, unless one is posted at that moment in a position which cannot be abandoned, that would be unacceptable to me and I know for many. Second point, not suitable for combat, what does that mean, I did not consider myself suitable for combat but they damn well made me suitable, four wars, three on the front line and one not very far behind. Apart from that I have served my people in other ways without having my nose stuck in a book 24/7/365. This is not conducive to a healthy mind and hence a healthy attitude to life and society. I know who I am and what I am, I have not "lost contact" with my heritage, I have read the Bible from page to page, I have tramped and trekked this land from head to toe and I do not need the "Good Book" to tell me who I am. I consider myself "Israeli" and this comes a long way before I consider myself a "Jew". When the ultras start to think as I do and act as I did then Israel as a society will be on the mend.
13. U r right! It should be all of them -Haredim/Arabs/Seculars/
Jew1 ,   Ashdod   (02.24.13)
Let's assume that idf really does not need haredim. Why my son should be forced to join the idf when someone else is getting paid to sit and do nothing? Everyone must join the service including haredim, arabs and all the girls. If idf do not have enough space/budget then they should take for available space, euqal number of haredim/ seculars/ arabs (ofcourse compaired to ratio built on population wise) and not only force seculars to serve. This is not justice. Make a loto system who will join where (except front line combat units). We need lot of people to work in our hospitals, police on roads, fire fighters, old age homes, road cleaning etc. Use each and every one of them including girls (haredi/ arabs/ seculars). You are right by insisting that we must treat nation as a priority. I hope all haredim/arabs will stop treating themselves as priority and will serve this nation and it's needs. Unity will bring the solution to all external matters also. Otherwise we do not need external foces to destroy us.
14. learning job skills is the solution not the army
zionist forever   (02.24.13)
The army doesn't want or need the hared and the hared do not want the army because it clashes with their Torah lifestyle so the solution is saying they must go on obligatory job skills courses or go in the army. Create special classes based in a haredi friendly environment where they are taught skills for holding down jobs and we help them find jobs. Once they have got their qualifications we can have a 3 strikes and your out system where if they reject 3 jobs its the army. Its not going to make the hared haters happy seeing them sitting in a schooll learning job skills rather than running around in green uniforms against their will but if we are seriously interested in the haredi contributing to society then the solution is not stick them in the army its help them by making them employable rather than punishing them by sticking them in an army that doesn't want them.
15. @5 there is talk of alternate tracks for Service
Jrebecca ,   modiin   (02.25.13)
Just like our Dati women do Sherut Leumi, and soldier unsuited for combat do office or background work, the Haredim would be sent to jobs that suit them. But there are plenty of Haredim that would be well suited for armed combat as well.
16. @12 I take it you dont mind when religious soldiers
Jrebecca ,   modiin   (02.25.13)
dont attend tekes because there are women singing. After all, women singing " is not what the armed forces are for". PS - the moment you stop learning a subject you loose touch with it.
17. @8 Haredim "sharing the burden" has become an obsession
Jrebecca ,   modiin   (02.25.13)
I agree that the demand for Haredim (and only Haredim, not Arabs) to "share the burden" has become an obsession, the in thing, especially when the Army is cutting costs and cant use the staff they have effectively. But it's not only "share the burden" that's the issue. Its also the stipend they get to study all day, to not work or pay taxes either, that upsets a lot of us.
18. Haredim need to grow...
Colorado ,   USA   (03.01.13)
So right, zionist forever #14. It wouldn't be wise in any respect to pawn the Haredim off on the army. The army is a fighting defense force, not a social services human repair and education department. The Haredim must actually be rehabilitated. They have to see the world and their place in it from a larger vantage point. Right now, from within their insular society, ONLY studying Torah etc. is valued by their group and their leaders. They will NEVER EVER defend what they do not value, so army? No way. Except for those who want to serve. From a sociological standpoint, all of the welfare, dependency, narrow focus, heavy control paradigm, is robbing the Haredim of their full humanity. Study? Sure. Become a scholar? Not for everyone. Certain people have certain gifts. Others don't. Everyone can study Torah. But as a way of life, the one who studies must be the one who earns the right. Free rides breed contempt for those who provide the funding. Odd, but that's the way it works. It removes any sense of personal responsibility. There's room for the Haredim in society and they can learn to be full human beings and to stop stealing from others. I doubt they've thought about that way--they are breaking the Law to study the Law. And I dare say they are making an idol of their lifestyle because of the freebies, which has been UNKNOWN in the history of the Jewish people until now. I'm sad that Bennett didn't side with Netanyahu, but has fallen under the Lapid spell, which is too centrist. He has some great contributions, but the Uber-Haman (Obama) is on his way, and this is no time for playing around.
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