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Yeshiva students 'waiting to be arrested'
Tali Farkash
Published: 06.03.13, 15:18
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1. ashamed by these haredim , prescription to defend
dr daniel mostrem ,   paris   (03.06.13)
eretz israel is a Torah prescription, not fighting is a galouth prescription
2. Arrest Them Then
SteveR ,   Dallas USA   (03.06.13)
In the US, they would be arrested. There is no Haredi exemption to anything. They think there is - so we get stories of child molestation, tax evasion, fraud on the government, hiring illegals etc. but they are arrested the same as anyone. Naturally they scream antisemitism but no one cares about that. So my advice, arrest them.
3. #1
Shaindy Goldberg ,   Ramat Beit Shemesh,   (03.06.13)
First, leave the comforts of your Paris residence than speak about a "galouth prescription."
4. US military fights IDF's wars for them, global terror, 9/11
Steve Benassi ,   Silver Bay, MN USA   (03.06.13)
...Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Iran.
5. so, jail with pals or Army with Jews??
BUILD BABY BUILD ,   United States   (03.06.13)
what will it be?? This is why the ordinary Israeli is so resentful of these draft dodgers. Their children serve but these wont? Their day is coming and they wont like it. Their choice, their time in jail. Best thin is to end all state aid to them. They aren't deserving.
6. Enjoy your jail time draft dodger.
BUILD BABY BUILD ,   United States   (03.06.13)
And hope your cell mate is a friendly Jew and not a hostile pal.
7. A comprimise must be reached.
shadoil ,   Jerusalem   (03.06.13)
The secular folks have NO idea of what they are up against. You can cut money and arrest all you want the Charedi tzibur will not bend. PLEASE to both sides yield to compromise or it will be the end of us.
8. #2 SteveR
DavidR ,   USA   (03.06.13)
What is this arrogance? Why do you assume that Israel cares what would be done in the US or what your advice may be? Do you know the meaning of "mind your business?"
9. Build Baby Build.
DavidR ,   USA   (03.06.13)
Are you a Jew? If so, buy a plane ticket to Israel and join the IDF yourself. If not, your opinion is only interference in the affairs of a sovereign nation of which you have no part.
10. Heheh, here's the funny part ,...
split ,   US   (03.06.13)
... they procreate 4 times faster than the rest of you ;) ,...
11. Lazy leeches!
Phoenix ,   Israel   (03.06.13)
Of course they don't mind, they will still get room and food for free as they are used to. Stop giving free money to these lazy parasites.
12. Stop the theft of the Jewish State
Colorado ,   USA   (03.06.13)
Nobody might care if they were objecting due to conscience AS LONG AS THEY ALSO WEREN'T LIVING ON THE DOLE of those who work and serve. Sure, study all day every day. Ignore your duties to your families and as men. But pay for it yourself. How hard is that to understand? Now that my rant is finished--we must understand that they are terrified of the unknown. They are afraid for their souls. Torah is the solution, because to love G-d with the entirety of one's self involves more than study. It involves action. Action toward one's neighbor. By helping them understand that Torah is the teacher, and there are avenues of service they can be a part of in accordance with true Torah instruction, then they can succeed. I would not think it advisable to put guns in the hands of these people. To be part of the IDF you have to be tough--strong in many ways. These young men are weaklings. Kept that way by those of their group in power, who make money through it and who keep their power structure intact through it. The solution: STOP paying people for doing nothing. OFFER a reasonable alternative that takes the fear element out. ACCUSTOM them to the new environment and make some accommodations for their weaknesses--for example don't have them examined by female doctors just yet (or ever). They will rise to the change in circumstance, or they will join Israel's enemies. It's best to force the issue to see where they stand. Even if a few change it can start an effect. The leadership of their group(s) is to blame for this mess.
13. UNKNOWN FACT TO ISRAELIS
albert ,   U.K   (03.06.13)
Israel is not the only country that exempts students in full time spiritual study. Most western governments do!!!!! They appreciate that one needs G-ds help to win any war. Indeed- even during world war 2 when the british army needed every able bodied man, english yeshivah students were exempt from the English army . You live and learn my brothers. keep smiling and loving
14. Arrogance? How about Rudeness.
SteveR ,   Dallas USA   (03.06.13)
Excuse me? I merely gave some advice to Israel based on my experience with the Haredi in America. They must obey the law here in America - I think I made that clear. They do not like to obey the law here either but that does not matter does it? Not in America. The law against molesting children applies to everyone alas. So my advice to Israel, based on my experience in America, make them obey the law. Otherwise you have anarchy. Many Israelis agree with me. BTW, my children are Israeli and they serve.
15. Agree #7, USA comments lacking...
Colorado ,   USA   (03.06.13)
The "rough guy" comments from some of the contributors are crazy. If you're not going to be part of the solution in Israel, then focus on the US and it's issues. Compromise is the issue here. I totally agree. The Haredim have been taught that it is against G-d to defend the Jewish State. Okay--BUT they live in it and are using it's money. Again, theft. Theft is not in line with Torah. If they object to any service at all, then what is the solution? Israel cannot support a growing population through the work of others. THEY THEMSELVES must work. There is not in the history of the Jewish people this kind of thing... steal money to study Torah. The solution is to offer service projects they can work on in small teams of other Haredim. Building, painting, planting, helping--ALL of those are in line with Torah. Sure, keep the men and women separate. Sure, don't make them learn fighting and weapons (unless they want to ). They are totally out of shape and are weak, and are in no condition whatsoever, physically or spiritually, to be in the IDF's combat forces. But they can pick up a mop, a broom, a paintbrush, help the elderly, learn IT skills. This ain't rocket science. It's just a group who've learned to milk the good graces of others, which puts them, essentially, albeit mostly unknowingly, against G-d and Torah. As was said by another poster, COMPROMISE is the solution. They have a lot to learn to be able to fend for themselves again. They don't have to change their ways. They just have to learn to work again. Take the fear out. Show them the true way of Torah, and some, perhaps many, will follow. Don't think the money-making leaders will like being disempowered very much however.
16. Simple Solution: Jail Time on Work Crew
American-Israeli Jew ,   Israel   (03.06.13)
MAKE them assist garbage collection crews, sweeping sidewalks, etc. They'll fast lose their complacence about spending jail time -- and their rabbi who goes to jail with them must WORK with them! More than one way to get them to work.
17. Send unit of female military police
Eric ,   Tel Aviv & NYC   (03.06.13)
send women to arrest him. put him in one car and rabbi in another. then book them at different locations for dersition and aiding a criminal
18. Human rights violation
Aaron Kuperman ,   Baltimore, MD   (03.06.13)
In most countries, someone who refuses to join the army on religious grounds is respected as a conscientious objector, and throwing someone in prison for refusing to serve on religious grounds is considered a serious human rights violation. -- While secularized Jews tend to despise hareidim as reminders of the world they and their ancestors rejected, to most everyone else they are a peaceful people who merely want to be left alone to practice their religion. -- At the very least, it will create a possibility that the the haredi parties will become natural allies of the Israeli left (assuming they can overcome their prejudices and decide the support for religious minorities is more important than a belief in militant secularism). At worse, they will ally with the Arabs (cf. conditions existing prior to the murder of Dr. De Haan by the secular zionists), and "share the burden" is the first step on the road to a "one state" solution involving an Islamic Palestine with an autonomous Jewish minority.
19. Please, stop the incitement!
Vladimir ,   Yerushalayim   (03.06.13)
Apply your anti-charedi laws to the secular conscription dodges and to the Arabs.
20. #13 - Incorrect
SteveR ,   Dallas USA   (03.06.13)
When they had a draft, a long time ago, western governments exempted students studying for the pulpit - for the priesthood, for the rabbinate etc. They did not exempt "full time spiritual study". Naturally the Haredi took advantage of this by claiming everyone in Yeshiva was in rabbinical study and the numbers were so small it was overlooked. But of course, they caught on in the United States. As usual, the Haredim winked at each other thinking they had duped everyone. They duped no one. They did cause resentment and antisemitism- Happy?
21. First form a Govt!
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (03.07.13)
Before proceeding there must be a Govt in place to make laws that may resolve the Yeshivot versus IDF standoff. Integration of the Haredim will not happen overnight.
22.  Rabbi Shmuel Auerbach should be arrested
Haim ,   TA   (03.07.13)
How sad these so called young men have no minds of their own. The rabbi should be arrested and tried for treason. There are rules in this country and if they dont like it they are free to leave. Although you have to wonder what other country in the world would allow these "free loaders" to live this so called life style , living off our tax money without contributing a sheckel. Draft the lot of them or long term prison sentences and cut their beniefits to their famalies. Lazy bums the lot of them.
23. @18. Draft dodging is not a Human Right.
Charles M. ,   California, USA   (03.07.13)
And the "they are a peaceful people who merely want to be left alone to practice their religion" quip is total bollocks: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4353405,00.html No contribution to the defense or economy of the State of Israel, but allow them to receive Israeli Welfare, while able to harass those fellow Jews they don't agree with. No asking for much, are they?. "Human Rights Violation". Right.
24. @19. You guys first.
Charles M. ,   California, USA   (03.07.13)
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4353405,00.html And the State of Israel has been applying draft dodging laws on Secular Jews and Arabs almost since day one of the formation of the IDF, so try another excuse.
25. IDF brings nt'l unity, both Litvak & Chasid criminalized
Chaim ,   TA   (03.07.13)
"I haven't heard anything from them since, but I know I'm not alone. My neighbor is a Vizhnitz Hasid and is in the same situation, because their Rebbe told them not to go either."
26. What about the Arabs
Heshy ,   Brooklyn ny   (03.07.13)
What about drafting the Arabs who have a right to vote and are on the supreme court as judges. Why are there no Chareidi judges on the supreme court. Arabs get medical and foodstamp support and are a fifth column. Chareidim are not going around blowing themselves up or knifing people every day. Yes they protest against gay parades which is an abomination but to compare Chareidim to Arabs is ridicules. In fact if not for the Chareidim here in the united states there would be no aid to Israel from America as it is the Chareidim who elect American politicians who are pro Israel. The secular american Jews don't care much about Israel. Their watered down religion became gay marriage and abortions. They voted almost seventy percent for Obama as opposed to Chareidim who voted against Obama at over ninety per cent. The army does not need the Chareidim. The secular racist anti Chareidi government are hoping to secularize Chareidi youth through their army expirence. There is no way they can put a hundred thousand Chareidim in prison. It would only deepen the hatred by Chareidi society of Zionism and the extremist neturei karta will smile and tell the Chareidi world,we told you not to support the zionists. Many. Chareidi leaders are hoping for a confrontation as a way of sparking up masses of bored young Chareidim to a cause.
27. Haredim Ignore Draft
MR ,   NJ, USA   (03.07.13)
Arresting draft dodgers costs money and personnel. They need to simply remove from them every social benefit. And take the police out of their neighborhoods. And remove from them the right to vote. And if it comes to that, mark them with an obvious mark so that everyone will know who would watch their brothers die and call that Torah. Like G-d, the ones who provide the benefits have the leverage. In the end, the state would be intact and most of the refusers would serve. And they would shut their proud mouths, which is almost as nice a thought.
28. 20-SteveR
albert ,   uk   (03.07.13)
I will have to respectfully disagree. The Jews during world war 2 had a great passion to fight the Nazis and were not looking for ways of 'getting out of it'. They continued learning in Yeshivah because they understood that studying Torah is a source of great merit for those going into battle. My grandfather ( who i'm sure loved winking ) would have loved to fight the Nazis who were slaughtering his family. As to your claim of it causing resentment. I highly doubt it. He was very much loved by the current queen and many ministers. You will also note that both in the past and currently - in most countries it is the Torah Jews who have a good relationship with the rulers.The rulers seem to appreciate them more than you do. I believe there are some haredi jews living in Dallas. If you put some of your prejudice aside, you might just find that they don't wear a hat while swimming( swimming is also a great opportunity for you observe they have no horns!) and are very fine people. warms regards, Happy albert
29. 16 simple solution
moshe   (03.07.13)
The Romans forbade the learning of torah under the punishment of gruesome deaths. The jews continued to learn Torah under rabbi akivah. The greeks did the same thing-and the Jews continued to learn torah. This has continued throughout history. ....until 2013 when you have come up with the ultimate way to get them to buckle: force them to sweep a sidewalk. I bet problem solving is your profession!
30. 27-mr, nj, usa
moshe   (03.07.13)
'who would watch their brothers die'. Your baseless hatred and your ignorance are fascinating ! Who founded the Hatzala movement (medically trained personal) and operate throughout the world indiscriminately saving peoples lives without pay?????? Do you? No- haredim do!!!! I cannot blame you- even the great sage of the talmud commented that he hated torah scholars more than anything else before he turned to learning torah. There's still hope for you then.....maybe one day rabbi MR, NJ
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