This is another battle in the culture clash between so-called "liberal progressives" who espouse a certain lifestyle and those who espouse an opposing lifestyle. I side with the opponents. This is no different than the GLBT's marching in Jerusalem. They all just want to stuff their sick outlook on life in everyone's face in the hope to create conflict and make those who prefer and want to defend in their places a more decent lifestyle look oppressive. It's a political trick. They really don't care about the Wall or Judaism or anything that reflects a fine point of view on life. I"m sure they'd object if hundreds of Haredim set up for prayer in front of their bars in Tel Aviv..

Once again shtetl rabbis use the spectre of a civil war in support of haredi dogmatism. Well, if they think war is coming they should learn to fight. Why not enlist in the IDF?

Its time that the control of haredim in every aspect of our lives will change. Haredim are not the real and only jews. Women shpuld be equal to men in this age, also in prayers at the Wall.

Are there any divine laws that entitle a particular group to refuse access to the Kotel to Jews/Jewesses who are deemed impure/unworthy by that group? Remember "Ki Beiti Bet Tefillati leKh'ol haAmim" = "My House is a House of Prayers for Everyone".

They seem to have adapted that slogan for all of their problems, "if we don't have our way. there will be a civil war." Before the Jerusalem was liberated by mainly secular troops of the IDF, men and women prayed together at the Wall as can be seen in many vintage photographs. It's important to remember, now that the Haridim no longer have a strangle hold on the government it is important to protect their rights. They will have to get used to not being a privileged class any more.

You are misinformed. The Kotel is not the private property of the haredim, It belongs to the Zionist state. A state where the rule of law is paramount . The WOW cannot pray there because of a high court ruling, not because of the decision of a shtetl rabbi. What part of the "decent lifestyle" of the haredim do you support the most? Forcing women to sit at the back of the bus? Stoning or pouring bleach on people with a different interpretaion of Judaism? Refusing to work and demanding payment from the state? Refusing to contribute to the sate that protects them?

to any conflict. One of the sides decides to capitulate. One of the sides is soundly thrashed in battle. I do not envisage either side capitulating, either voluntarily or by give and take in negotiations. The reason for this is that both sides cling on to ideology that leaves no leeway for compromise. I fear that the second option will indeed come about.

Ethan, You are correct that the current Keneset shows the decline of Hareidi political clout. (Even as they grow as a percentage of the country.) But it is also a Keneset in which the majority keep Shabbat. And even Labor has an Orthodox MK. Bot you and Moshe err in thinking this is a Chareidi issue. The Religious Zionist camp also requires a mechitzah. Moshe also errs in his history, as does Ms Hoffman. Before WoW, before liberation of the wall, before feminism, the State or even Zionism, the wall was a Chareidi synagogue. They aren't turning it into one now -- it's WoW who is trying to make something new. The prayers in the 19th cent through 1948 were NOT mixed. Civil authority didn't permit a mechitzah, but men and women stood apart. Here's a picture from the 1870s: http://english.thekotel.org/galleryPrint.asp?type=1&id=34 Shabbat Shalom! -micha

Yes to #4 there are laws about how to dress and how to behave in a place which is Holy. And there have always been laws and they have always been enforced by either the Kohanim, the Leviim, or Rabbis or by other Jews. So to answer your question yes people who do not act or dress according to the Torah, in a place which is considered a place of worship, can be barred or kicked out.

The paratroopers did NOT capture old Jerusalem , they LIBERATED Yeroushalaim .

The Temple was built by a Pagan Rome's non-Jewish appointee to be "king of the Jews," Herod. The "king" bled the Jews through taxation and lives lost in its construction to build a "trophy" to impress his Roman patrons, reportedly a "wonder of the the Empire." He even had a Roman eagle sculpture adorn the temple facade until zealots reportedly preceded the toppling of Sadam Hussein's Baghdad statue and pulled it down! Never completed before destroyed by the Roman legions along with Jerusalem, it did serve as a temple, focus of Jewish worship. But even the credentials of the priesthood are in question since the head priest was himself chosen not by ability, but loyalty and trustworthiness to Pagan Rome. Does the Wall have symbolic importance? As a reminder of our lost sovereignty 2000 years ago, yes. But how has it become a "holy" site for modern Jewry?

As I understand it, there is a space for alternative practice near Robinson's Arch. If the haredim went there and left the current wall to everyone else what might happen? Would WOW be satisfied or would move their activity to whereever the haredi are. In other words, is the wall important or ar they out to challenge to authority? I fear the confrontation is more important, but then who is not fed up with the priggish self-rightousness of the ultra-orthodox?

The wall is the closest area to the heichal, the wall itself is not holy. The location is a treasure for Jews that have kept the faith for 2000 years, not to the reform revisionists who have been anti-torah and anti-zionism since the 1600's and now want to change Israel to fit their convoluted ideologies.

The difference between the Women of the Wall and you is..... they live here, pay taxes here, get conscripted here. So shut your mouth.

Ironic, a bit, right?

Is a fight is caused is by the rabbis, in anywhere in the halacha is said a woman can't wear a talit, unfortunately our jewish people is more concerned in finding reasons to argue than to become brothers

These women make no sense: On one hand, they despise chareidim for their beliefs and way of life. But on the other hand they so badly want to wear a Tallit and pray just like chareidi men! I'm sorry to say, but it sounds like these women are specifically trying to start of fight.

... might I suggest they try to do so on the Temple Mount. If they think the police are tough at the Wall ...

How about everyone, dati and secular, put aside the differneces and unite so Jewish women can pray freely on Har Haybit! That's the real struggle. Religious: let them wear their tefillin at designated times (between prayer times). Secular/Women of Wall: Join the religious in demanding our right to pray on Har Habyit!

For years I have watched these women at the Wall and have come to the same conclusion you write here. they are no different from the Charidim who hate them...the women of the wall are also filled with hate. Tis sad

What a lame argument anyways.. I can't comment on the hypocrisy of reform Judaism because I don't live in Israel?

And say goodbye to any support of many American Jews for a united Jerusalem. (I personally would prefer Jerusalem in the hands of Arabs, to the sinat hinam - not in the last measure created by those criticizing here Women of the Wall.)

The argument that the law must be obeyed because the Supreme Court said so is close to the "I was just obeying orders" excuse. We now have a Martin Luther King holiday because he disobeyed unjust laws.

The ban on women wearing a tallit was established when wearing a "cape" was considered men's clothing and women could not ware the tallit due to the ban on cross dressing. However, time marches on and fashions change. Wearing a cape" is to day a women's garment. The whole fashion ideal has changed with "unisex" clothing. Women's status in society has also changed. The time has come to update or eliminate this archaic ban on who may wear a tallit.

While many Women of the Wall consider themselves Orthodox, and strictly abide by halacha, Hoffman herself is Reform. She has no aspiration to wear tefillin or make an all women's minyan in the women's section. This is an ends to a mean. Her goal is to have women in the men's section.

Can you imagine if Christian women worshipers insisted on going Topless at the Vatican, or Muslim women insisted on wearing shoes in Mecca? Would that be considered appropriate or respectful? Hoffman's agenda has nothing to do with praying or religious inclusion. She is reform and seeks to antagonize observant Jews and nothing more.

is very liberating.They might think at it as therapy.

A good test for lateral thinkers to resolve dispute but a real waste of time.Reform and Conservative Rabbis concentrate israels socioeconomic problems and social gap and conditions Of Shelters to protect Am YisRoel from Attacks by Holocaust deniers and Applauders Rockets.

What gives Haredim any right to be offended by typical average dress and manners? Let them buy blinkers, but stop them from imposing their standards on everyone else.