Opinion
Israelis indifferent to Obama visit
Tamar Hermann
Published: 18.03.13, 11:00
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61. To: No. 34
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.20.13)
1. The Lavon Affair. Oh, grow up. When is the United States planning to address the Chilean government and apologize for the murder of Salvador Allende? When is the United States planning to address the mullahs of Iran and apologize for the overthrow of Mossadegh? When is the United States planning to apologize to Cuba for its (failed numerous) attempts to assassinate Castro? When is the United States planning to apologize to the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua and around fifteen other countries for meddling in their internal affairs? Honey, if you don't know how the game is played, I suggest you stick to tiddlywinks. 2. The USS LIBERTY was sent off the coast of Haifa when President Lyndon Johnson realized that the Arabs were taking a beating. The USS LIBERTY was a signals interceptor vesse which was tasked with listening in on Israel's military communications, and relaying the content of those communications to the military high commands of Jordan and Syria -- against whom Israel was still at war. A shooting war. That is why the USS LIBERTY was blown out of the water. Please name one -- JUST ONE -- country that would have acted differently. 3. Jonathan Pollard. Mr. Pollard entered into a plea deal with the United States government in which he agreed to divulge the full extent of the information which was revealed to Israel -- an ALLY of the United States, I remind you. In exchange for the information, Pollard was to serve ten years. Well, the United States abrogated that plea agreement (which, I admit, is within the purview of a United States District Court Judge). However, there are many people who have been convicted as spies for foreign powers hostile to the United States whose sentences have been far shorter, and whose life terms have been absolved. We are talking, here, about people who have caused the deaths of thousands of United States assets in hostile countries. Not a single American life has been lost due to Jonathan Pollard's actions. The same cannot be said for the Walker Family of spies -- four of whom are now breathing free air. There are numerous other examples. If you are dead set upon having me humiliate you yet again, I can name those cases. All you have to do is ask.
62. To #66
Herr Adolf ,   New York   (03.20.13)
Yes, it was very humanitarian that Israel took in about 300 Vietnamese boat people and gave them citizenship and a home. However, Israel did not supply any troops or help the USA in Vietnam . Yet, Israel wants us to support them in their 'pursuits'.
63. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid
Shelly Jacobs ,   NY   (03.20.13)
"Assertive and elegant"? Amazing the affect of hard drugs on the human mind.
64. to #62 that cause Israel didn't initiated the war
ghostq   (03.20.13)
USA started it, Israel didn't start the fire. sadly, today, after threatning Israel by: "obay or die" financial wise, if the state of Israel won't obay they will be with no militery shields to protect its civilians(they cost money), than don't expect Israelis to be over exited by your president's visit. and obamah is getting too close to socialism, social agenda. the point is, in less than 50 years the USA change its course from a country that fights extreme socialism aka communism to becoming socialist country.
65. To #64 ghostq
Herr Adolf ,   New York   (03.20.13)
The US started the Vietnamese war, a very bad mistake. Too costly in both lives and money. My point being that Israel never sent troops to help, yet they expect Americans to shed blood to protect Israel. I also agree that the Israelis should not be excited by an Obama visit. He is more of a wanna be 'Rock Star' than a responsible President. He is a Socialist, who is ruining the US, which goes against the grain of many hard working, productive Americans. We generously support Israel with about $3 billion/year in Foreign Military Financing. Reality being, the creditor (us) has influence on the debtor or recipient , that's life in the fast lane. Many Americans, including Jews, don't trust Israel based on their history. And, feel that the Palestinians have been and continue to be treated horribly. In short, Israel can't have its cake and eat it too.
66. To # 61 Sarah
Herr Adolf ,   New York   (03.20.13)
Why do you persist in trying to insult people ? Your priggish arrogance detracts from your weak arguments. 1. What is there to 'grow up' about the Lavon Affair? I wished to illustrate the early mind set of Israel towards it's friends and allies. Israeli agents disguised as Egyptian terrorists committing acts of terrorism against US facilities in Egypt..... for shame. You cite several examples of us meddling in the internal affairs of other countries, but not one of us meddling in the internal affairs of Israel. Stick to the point. Are you trying to justify Israel's deceit of us? 2. The Liberty was a USA spy ship monitoring the radio transmissions and forwarding them to NSA, not to Jordan and Syria. It also recorded the slaughter of Egyptian prisoners, by Israelis, at El Arish. The unarmed Liberty was in international waters when Israeli planes and torpedo ships attacked it. Yet, you try to rationalize a breach of International law , and loss of American lives, because it might have been in Israels best interest. You people are supposed to be our Ally and friend. You can't be trusted. Pollard, the American spy, sold critical secrets to Israel. Note that the USA and Israel had a treaty or agreement to avoid that spying. Israel, an 'ally' should have taken the ethical high road and refused Pollard. There is good reason to believe that the lives of Americans were lost as a result of Pollard's treachery. Gee, I really feel sorry for him rotting away in prison. Guess the judge got a bit disturbed by the traitor, Pollard. Interesting to note that Pollard is lauded as a national hero in Israel, whichsays a lot.
67. To: No. 66
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.20.13)
Oh, please. You, lecturing me on what's insulting? Look at the name by which you choose to identify yourself on an Israeli news website, and reflect a bit on what constitutes an insult. 1. The United States was no friend of Israel until following the Six-Day War, when the U.S. realized that Israel calls the shots in the Middle East. The only reason that Truman even supported the establishment of the modern Jewish state is because he felt it necessary to (i) take the U.K. down a peg and replace the British Empire as the dominant Western influence; and (ii) throw the Jews a bone, never dreaming that Israel could prevail in a war against the Arab foes arrayed against her. But a desire to support the nascent Jewish state? No. That was never intended to be part of the formula. You may also recall that in 1973, it was not until Israel had encircled the entire Egyptian Third Army and cut its supply lines, crossed the Suez Canal and stood poised to march on Cairo, that the United States sent needed spare parts. Is that your idea of an ally? It isn't mine. The United States meddles in the internal affairs of most nations on the face of the earth. The only reason the U.S. has been unsuccessful with respect to Israel is because we know who the U.S. spies are and we can stop you. The U.S. has not succeeded with respect to Israel, but it is not for want of trying. 2. No, by the time the USS LIBERTY sailed from Spain, Egypt had been totally demolished. By the way -- the NSA was established in 1981, some fourteen years AFTER the Six Day War -- you need to be a bit more careful about your "facts." But the fact remains that President Johnson wanted to save Jordan and Syria from total humiliation. If the USS LIBERTY had not interfered with Israel's conduct of a war which Israel did not start, no American lives would have been lost. Of course, if it's a question of trust -- how is it possible to trust an "ally" that relays Israeli military communications to two countries engaged in war against Israel? I wouldn't fall back on the "trustworthy" argument here -- there's nothing in the facts that support your position. 3. What does the United States know about ethical "high roads?" I suppose you might want to direct that question to the Taiwanese. That said, please tell me the basis for your "good reason to believe" that American lives were lost because of Pollard's espionage (do keep in mind that he was charged with espionage; not treason). While you're at it, tell me why members of the Walker Family of spies are no longer in prison, despite having received life sentences. They were the most damaging spies to United States interests ever; even more damaging than Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanson. You may not be aware, but the entire USS PUEBLO fiasco happened because Walker had access to the daily United States naval encryption codes, and the Russians wanted the encryption machine to go with it. That, they got from the North Koreans, who took it from the USS PUEBLO. And you wonder why the Vietnam escapade went so badly for the United States? That's because the Soviets were reading U.S. signals traffic. Chalk up 50,000 dead Americans to the Walker family -- and three of that nest of spies are out of prison. Finally, Pollard entered into an agreement with the Department of Justice, and the Department of Justice reneged. What does that say about the trustworthiness of the United States, and why should Israel believe a single thing that the United States says?
68. To: No. 26
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.21.13)
How about the law embedded in the United States Constitution which states quite clearly that the president of the United States must be BORN in the United States? Ever read Orwell's "Animal Farm?" You should. Napoleon the pig sums it up pretty well: "All pigs are equal. Some pigs are more equal than others." That would be Obama.
69. #67 - sarah b - why don't
David ,   Raanana   (03.21.13)
you give up your American citizenship ????????? You hate that country so much !!!
70. Jonathan Pollard
David ,   Raanana   (03.21.13)
Pollard being an American citizen had the obligation to remain faithful the his flag. He got what he deserved. You don't live in a country and get all the benefits and then spy on it. He loved Israel, then he had to take up Israeli citizenship, come to Israel and serve his country.
71. To: No. 69
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.21.13)
It's tempting, I must say, but it's not a question of hatred. It's a question of balance and equality under the law. Does that pose a problem for you? Trust me -- if push comes to shove, I cast my lot with the State of Israel -- the only place in the world where a Jew can be safe simply because he or she is a Jew. Until then, however, I continue to pay taxes to both (lots of taxes, actually). But should I ever have to choose, I will.
72. To: No. 70
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.21.13)
So what should Israel do with the likes of Tibi and Zoabi, who not only flout Israeli law, but collect a salary for doing it? Traveling to Libya? Sailing aboard the MAVI MARMARA? Inciting violence by Arabs against the State of Israel What do THEY deserve, David? A rope?
73. to #65 you wrong about Israelis
ghostq   (03.21.13)
some jewish families who lost their love ones in WW2 came to Israel. sad to say but behind your rant you connect jews to money,or Israel to money, to Israel your country give loans not handouts and you collect with intrest, but to the palestinians you gave millions with no refunding, sound like you used the money as an excuse. do you even know how much Israel pay for your shark loaning, and how much handouts one way you give to the palestinians. do that. please I demand you do. they got you for a fool, cause they got the poor me industry. they won't show you the new shopping mall in Jenin.
74. To #70 David
Herr Adolf ,   New York   (03.21.13)
Thank you for your clearheaded and honest comments about the American spy, Pollard. Just wish that Israelis would stop honouring him as a national hero and begging for his release. It is such actions by Israelis that not only alienates many Americans but germinates and reinforces a lot of anti-Semitism. In short, it does not engender a lot of trust in Israel.
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