men 20 years of age or older, were treated as equals. All men were enlisted into the military & when assembling for war, they were asked "who are too fearful for battle, or those who have married but not "known their wife" may be excused" and they were. Therefore, by historical standard, those Jews currently living in Israel, even the Orthodox, must enlist to defend, in equal measure, the State of Israel.

Why is it that outside of Israel Haredim generally work and study and do not ask fro handouts from the government? The only Haredim that I've encountered in Canada that seek handouts are pitiful Israeli Haredim walking door to door in Jewish centric neighborhoods asking for tdaka like a begger in the street. Despicable if you ask me and no Canadian Haredi would ever do such a thing, I assure you. So why are these things acceptable in Israel? Why can a Haredi in Canada sit on the bus next to a woman and not in Israel?

Western secular ideology vs religious 18th century Haredi ideology means there is little common ground. Everyone defending the Haredim here in this forum and from people I've spoken with point fingers at others to make their point. What about the Arabs? The Palestinians? The government workers? The electric company? Diversion, diversion diversion. I do hope there is no capitulation on this issue because it will prolong the inevitable but in the short term it might get ugly.

those that REFUSE to see. Rather than address the problem, you deflect, and justify the non-participation of the Haredim in society by pointing at others. Unfortunately, due to the relatively rapid growth of the haredi population, Israel will reach a point were there will not be a sufficient number of tax-paying workers (including those haredim that do work) to support those that do not. Whose will you blame then? And stop referring to those that criticize the Haredim as "self-hating Jews." You show your ignorance when you do so.

Try 1 or 3.5 millions for 800 years or longer like others did ,...

This guy is a professor??

"Why is it that outside of Israel Haredim generally work and study and do not ask fro handouts from the government?" - Yeah right, that will be the day. Same crap everywhere ,...

The only reason there is a Jewish country and why you have a right to be there, is that the seculars you so villify, came to Israel, fought for it, and died for it. I am happy to hear your son is in Tsahal. I wish him health and long life. But in 1948, if there were any haredi fighting for Eretz Israel, they were few and far between. And if you feel that they won only because HaShem gave them the victory (some victory, considering all who were killed), this would mean that HaShem didn’t discriminate between secular and religious. Why should you?

and prove it by your posts. The point is that the TA and Rishon Jews who are drafted, go into Tzahal. Most haredi don’t go into Tzahal. The point is they should be drafted or serve in some other way. You try to avoid the point of the article, but you can’t. The rest of your posts are garbage; until now, the power being wielded, and the people raking in unearned money, are mostly haredi. If seculars were intimidated, you wouldn’t be hearing this from them. Your words about ‘conscience’ is wishful thinking at its best. Hate shows through your posts, as do a holier-than-thou attitude. You exemplify the problem. This is not a compliment.

MANY orthodox Bne Akiba boys were on the battle field.

This argument has been going on before the state of israel was created. The issue is not israel's right to exist. That's a given. It's "soul" is at stake. This continous vitriol will cause civil war. Israel will defeat its enemies but will it survive its religious ambiguities which are like a permanent scar on its psyche.

Please tell me why did they fight for THIS country? Why didn't they go to Uganda? Or any other country? The only reason for us jews to be here is because of the thora, and just the thora give us the right to be here.

In the comment from charidi brothers he argues that some Israelis and Arabs don't pay taxes so the haredim should have no duty toward the country they also live in. It is almost the same as saying: there are thiefs so stealing should be allowed, but only for the haredim. What twisted thinking is that? The haredim should understand they live in country surrounded with ennemies so every citizen should contribute

You are right in that it was the Torah. You are wrong in thinking that one who does not practice every single thing in the Torah is not a Jew. There are many ways of being Jewish. One man wanted to decide who is and is not a Jew- I will not say his name. But a secular can be Jewish. There are many kinds of Jews, not just one kind.

You are right. I meant haredi, but was not clear enough. Thank you for the correction.

I never said that ''seculars'' are not jews. But we as jews have a responsibility to keep Hashems word and I believe that studying Thora is as important as what our IDF-Soldiers do... Both are protecting Eretz Yisrael in their own way. Live and let live!

Preparing to die for your country excuses or negate promiscuous behavior of teenagers? If the army is not interested in "proselytizes devout Jews" - why were soldiers reprimanded for walking out when women sang? "many seculars see you as primitive and lazy people" - Why would Charadim measure themselves against a secular yardstick? Please try to be more honest with yourself.

My apologies if I misunderstood re: seculars. But HaShem helps a moving vessel; one that helps itself. If the rabbis of old held jobs while they studied, so can the hareidi of today. And with all due respect, praying did not help us much in the Shoa. Fight and pray, but fight above all. You can't win a lottery without buying a ticket. You can't win a war without fighting.

The difference is that students who leave the TA univ at the end of their studies become productive and contributing citizens . And they were not paid to study , they had to pay .

<"let me clarify that the term “bully” I don’t mean to offend, but technically: To describe someone who wants to impose his own way on others, not because it is better or in any way justified, but because it’s his." > This is a perfect description of the orthodox stranglehold on their definition of being a Jew. Most of those to whom this article is addressed are the bullys. Look in a mirror.

also applies to professional academicians in most Israeli colleges and universities... but especially to those who identify themselves as "Leftist". Then there are the professional political agitators in NGOs that tie up the courts with SLAPP suits on behalf of individuals and groups who openly work for the total destruction of Israel. The Haredi community and the Left both manage to shirk their responsibilities. Hypocrisy and scapegoating are their primary fixation.