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Polish weekly shows Merkel in concentration camp prisoner uniform
Ynet
Published: 11.04.13, 17:22
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1. The pot calls the kettle black.
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.11.13)
2. During the era of Der Sturmer
R Narz ,   Toronto   (04.11.13)
There was a similar Polish weekly which largely existed off of plagiarizing the German one.
3. The Nazis and the Poles
Serge ,   NY, US   (04.11.13)
There is no doubt about what the nazis did, but I remember my grandparents and my friends' grandparents who came from Poland saying that they hate the Polish people more that the Nazis because they were more antisemitic and lived with them. Even my granmother was against me taking the Polish passport (EU) becuause she did not want to have anything to do with them at all.
4. #3
Tomek ,   Poland   (04.11.13)
My grandma lived in Chelm, the city in eastern Poland. Until the German invasion, the Jewish population of the city was very large. Just like yours, my grandma also told me stories about her neighbors. Jewish shopkeepers, apparently, would not eat breakfast until they cheated at lest one customer that morning (funny, I know). Jews were also very obedient and passive when faced with the German authorities. When they were ordered to gather in the city square, they did. When they were ordered to march, they did. No opposition, no fighting back. You see, my beloved grandma would have no reason to lie to me. But I am intelligent enough not to draw any sweeping conclusions based on these stories. My grandma simply did not like Jews too much. The stories she told me were the reflection of this dislike. Your grandma was no different. The Merkel cover is a bit harsh but it makes a very valid point. It is not PC anymore to say that Germans caused the devastation of Europe in WWII. It was the Nazis.
5. Poles and Jews
Avramele   (04.11.13)
The history of our people in Poland was always a mixed blessing. My family comes from the shtetl's of Turobin and Gorai. Most of the family did not survive the shoah. The first of my great uncles was killed early on when the Nazis entered the shtetl ( burned alive in the shul more correctly), the last was killed in a polish pogrom upon his return from the camps. In between and for centuries before the Jews of Poland experienced both good neighborly relations and gratuitous hatred. We were hidden in convents and vilified by the mother church; protected at great risk and turned in casually. We were and were not part of polish history and the Polish nation. There are three million different stories and generalizations are difficult.
6. ALL TRUE AND MORE
ZIMBI ,   NJUSA   (04.11.13)
7. To: No. 4
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (04.11.13)
My parents (both gone, now) were Jewish concentration camp survivors. My mother came from Krakow, and my father came from Lwow. They both said that as bad as the Germans were, the Poles were far worse.
8. #7 you did not understand
(04.11.13)
Poland is also the country with the greatest number of Righteous of the Nations. Now reread Tomek's letter and think about it. There is only one conclusion that you can make from these facts, and if you don't understand, then pay attention Sunday night.
9. # 7
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (04.11.13)
"as bad as the Germans were, the Poles were far worse." Some people would say: "as bad as the Russians were, the Jews were far worse." Do such ersatz-opinions mirror any reality? Resentment, certainly, but nothing beyond that.
10. Te truth is that Poles in general we no Jew Lovers
Ari ,   Jerusalem   (04.11.13)
Some Poles saved Jews but many were nazi colaborators.The polish resistance could have helped more the Jewish resistance but they didn't. Poles are ofended taugh. We are not diminishing the Nazi horrors, but People in Poland, were bastards. Some Jews that were saved from the concentration camps returned to theiiir vilages to claim their property and were slaughtered by the locals. Many pogroms were done by the locals. An example is the Pogrom in Yedwabne were locals took the jews put them in a barn and burrned them. My Father was from Warsaw, he left before the war, but he told me how juvenile bands use to harrass the Jews constantly Jews were denid constantly acces to higher education, and this was before the Nazi invasion of Poland. The same behaviour was in Hungary, in Romania. At least Gerans have recognized their part of the blame, they have made some compensations. Poland has refused..
11. Bless you Avramele
ZIMBI ,   NJUSA   (04.12.13)
12. @@10
sasha ,   us   (04.12.13)
At least Germans have recognized their part of the blame, they have made some compensations. Poland has refused.. It's what we taking about. Where do the Poles stand in this pecking order of iniquity in war world II? Keep this in mind: the Jews in Poland were isolated in ghettos and than moved by german to the death camps.
13. #10 ,...
split ,   US   (04.12.13)
Reading jerks like you I'm asking myself why would any sane Pole risk his/her/family life to safe such an ungrateful maggot like you ? ,... Jewish resistance? what Jewish resistance? Even if there was one give me a one good reason why would the Poles disarm themselves during occupation to arm Jews ? ,... Jedwabne pogrom on July 1941(not as big as one of your homies suggest) was a payback for Jewish back stabbing conduct during Soviet occupation from September 1939 to June 1941 ,...
14. To: No. 9
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (04.12.13)
Oh, please! Why can't you Poles face reality? Accept your complicity with the Nazis, accept the murders of Jewish survivors who tried to reclaim their property long after the war ended, beg our forgiveness, compensate us for our losses, and get the hell out of our lives. Go back to being walking, talking ethnic jokes. That's about your speed. Simple enough.
15. to Ari
Justine   (04.12.13)
"Jews were denid constantly acces to higher education" Despite that, more than 10% of university students in 1939 were Jewish. "At least Gerans have recognized their part of the blame, they have made some compensations. Poland has refused.. " 1. Germans murdered several million Jews. Poles - several thousands. 2. Germany paid compensations because the Holocaust was government policy. The Polish government or army never collaborated in the Holocaust. Pogroms were made by individuals who didn't represent the Polish state. No Jewish organization ever demanded Poland to pay compensations "for the war". What they ask for is compensations for properties nationalized by the communists, which is a different story. ".The polish resistance could have helped more the Jewish resistance" Please elaborate. Do you know about Warsaw 1944 Uprising and how it ended?
16. my family was murdered by Poles in WW2
Shepard ,   Memphis   (04.12.13)
My great grandfather and his extended family were from Pren and when the Nazis took over Poland their Polish sympathizers went to action quickly against their Jewish neighbors. After months of torture and deprivation, the high school seniors rounded up the Jewish y leadership and shot them behind the high school. Eventually the entire jewish community was rounded up and shot and thrown into pits. The Poles were - in general - no different than the Germans. This, of course, is in the past...and we should not blame the current Germans and Poles BUT let's not rewrite history. The German story is based on fact.
17. to Ari
Justine   (04.12.13)
"At least Gerans have recognized their part of the blame, they have made some compensations." Poles killed at most tens of thousands of Jews, Germans killed millions. But "they recognize their part of the blame and have made some compensations" so they're better! Way to go with such logic...
18. #16
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (04.12.13)
Pren. I do not recall ever hearing about a Polish town carrying this name. And I do not recall ever hearing about some Polish high school seniors rounding up the Jewish leadership and shooting them behind the high school. And that "when the Nazis took over Poland". And so on. In the time when, by German occupation law, anyone found in possession of any kind of fire-arm was to be sentenced to death (which usually meant: to be shot on the spot). But look at those Polish "high school seniors". They just do not care about those idiotic German war decrees. They oil their fire-arms and then, quite openly round up and shoot and throw into pits "the entire jewish community". Sorry, Mr. Shepard of Memphis. But your family tradition about the murderous Polish "high school seniors" of the town of Pren does not sound too probable.
19. Hating entire peoples not the lesson of the Shoah
(04.12.13)
The genocide of the Jews was unique in so many ways and yes more than just Germans were complicit. However ethnic hatred is not how I or my parents chose to remember our family dead. As for the Poles 3 million innocent non Jewish Poles perished during the war an astounding number. I have room in my heart to shed tears for them as well. Our family's answer to the Shoah is not hatred but a commitment to life and justice including the creation of a free and democratic Jewish state as a moral light unto the nations.
20. We don't need no compensation
HaifaGuy   (04.12.13)
I want you, Poles et al., to stop squabbling over Jewish graves, and get on with cooking the cabbage soup while the rest of the continent slowly settles into Islamic pipedream on the backdrop of economic catastrophy. Split, wrap yourself in cabbage leaves and leave yourself to gently rot in your granma's outhouse.
21. To: No. 18
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (04.12.13)
Let's try this. Have you heard about the town of Jedwabne, where 1,600 Jews were rounded up by Poles, herded into a barn, and burned alive on July 10, 1941? Have you heard of the massacre of Jews in Kielce on July 4, 1946, when they returned to try and reclaim their property? These are just two of many, many similar incidents. And please do not forget what the Poles did to the Jews for several centuries. Blood libel, theft of property, pogroms and other massacres. Does the name Bogdan Chelmicki mean anything to you? Stop whitewashing your history. You need to come to terms with it. It's pretty horrific, but it is what it is.
22. #18 If you don't know about it...
Cynthia ,   USA   (04.12.13)
Gosh, it must not have happened. Fortunately, we have witnesses who survived to tell their stories and report what really happened. It's obviously painful for you to read about Polish involvement in the genocide of Jews.
23. #21
Tomek ,   Poland   (04.12.13)
Jedwabne is a complicated case. This area was in the Soviet zone between 1939 and The Barbarossa. The Polish Jews welcomed the Soviets and eagerly coopered with the new regime to the peril of their Christian Polish neighbors. In Kielce, a few dozen Jews were killed. I do not want to sound crude, but it is a drop in the ocean compered to not only the scale of the Holocaust but also to the number of casualties of the post-war lawlessness in Poland that is estimated at 200,000. Chmielnicki was Ukrainian and did a lot of damage to the Commonwealth as a whole, not only to her Jewish inhabitants.
24. # 21
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (04.12.13)
Yes, I have heard about the town of Jedwabne, and the death of slightly over three hundred Jews, rounded up by a band of local goons, herded to that barn and burned alive. And yes - those goons (we do not know how many of them were there) were Poles. Bogdan Chelmicki means nothing to me. But Bogdan Chmielnicki does. A national hero of Ukraine, not a Pole, by any measure. Kielce. Yes, an event I do not really understand the rationale of. In that way, it reminds me of the Deir Yassin massacre - murders perpetrated out of presumably patriotic reasons just a couple of years after the Holocaust. And, dear ersatz-historian, I know the history of my country pretty well, and I do not think it needs whitewashing. And I have read Hannah Arendt, too. Facts are facts and it's always a good practice not to attempt to change them - by linking them with sheer phantasies. I do not think it necessary for the citizens of Poland to feel responsible for every unconfirmed wrong. Like the one described in Mr. Shepard talkback.
25. # 22
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (04.12.13)
Exactly. No town named Pren in pre-war Poland. But one in Lithuania (Prienai). It does not matter for Mr. Shepard. Even if the massacre he describes was in fact prepetrated by the Lithuanians (who fully and willingly collaborated with the Nazi Germany) he would go on accusing the Poles. Lithuanians or Poles? What's the difference? Ukrainians or Poles? What's the difference? By definition, it is the Poles who must be found guilty for any imaginable crime.
26. #23 Not complicated
Cynthia ,   USA   (04.12.13)
In Jedwabne, 1600 Jews were burned alive by their Polish neighbors. In Kielce, 40 Jews who survived the Holocaust were massacred by Polish neighbors. Another 40-50 were injured. This wasn't a random act of lawlessness. These people were massacred just because they were Jewish.
27. @Cynthia (#26)
Voytek ,   Ireland   (04.12.13)
Why are you lying? A quick look at the Wikipedia article on Jedwabne pogrom shows that: (1) There were 340 Jewish victims. The figure of 1,600 people given by Polish Jew, J.T. Gross (author of the book 'Neighbours'), has not been confirmed by any investigation. (2) The massacre was inspired & instigated by Germans, with involvement of Polish (forced?) villagers, whereby several dozens of German Mauser munition was found at the spot during the excavation works. Now, do you know that during excavation in 2001 Jewish Rabbis did not agree on the full post-mortem of the victim bodies founds stating religious reasons. It is, however, the huge fault of late President Lech Kaczynski (Minister of Justice at the time) that he agreed on their appeal, as Poles are now smeared as the only perpetrators in Jedwabne. Shame!
28. According to new polls, Poland is the by far
Chris Rettenmoser ,   Bayerisch Gmain Germ   (04.12.13)
most antisemitic country in Europe.
29. Poles and Jews
Chris ,   Warsaw, Poland   (04.12.13)
Avramele, A great point! I could not agree more. My family were hiding a Jew at one stage of the war. On the other hand, loving Israel and the Jewish people, even now I occasionally get mixed or strange reactions when I openly show my interests in Israel and sympathy towards the Jewish people. What's even more, being a Pole and a deeply believing Catholic, I would probably get knockbacks from all the parties and sides ;) You can be Mind you, real Catholics should love the Jewish people (not just like but love!) and there are a number of reasons for this. Real Catholics should not have committed some of the mistakes in the past. And, they should have saved their Jewish brothers, which I'm glad a decent number of them did! Shalom, tovah u-vrakha le-Israel!
30. According to Poland's Rabbi Schudrich, Poland is least anti
Chris ,   Warsaw. Poland   (04.12.13)
Please get it right Mr Chris Rettenmoser! Please listen to this program (link below) to which I can attest, too. On this ABC Radio program Warsaw's Rabbi Schudrich said Poland was one LESS antisemitic than most other countries nowadays! http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/360/my-fear-of-poland/2970756 Kind regards!
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