Minister Piron to haredi schools: No math, no funding
Alon Hadar
Published: 12.04.13, 10:10
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1. The voice of reason
Sagi   (04.12.13)
is heard in our land.
2. Excellent !!!
Uri ,   Tel Aviv area   (04.12.13)
3. Math is not Sex Education
PaulD ,   Jerusalem   (04.12.13)
Complaining about Math and other vital knowledge skills is just an attempt of the purists to maintain a level of independence, and refusal in this case is dumb. However, why in the world does this Piron interfere with where they visit. We are not talking about Damascus or Mecca.
4. Finally, some light in the dark...
Yossef   (04.12.13)
5. Math in orthodox schools
avraham ,   Jerusalem   (04.12.13)
I agree with minister Piron's plans, but he will meet a fierce opposition of all ultra-orthodox establishment in Israel. Not only math and English to be introduced in their schools/yeshivot, but also some other subjects, like natural sciences etc. Without a larger knowledge, how could many young Orthodox be integrated into the labor force in Israel?
6. agree 100% with the writer and minister
ami ,   canada   (04.12.13)
7. No math. Period
Keren Il-BR   (04.12.13)
It is totally wrong to impose the secular curriculum on the religious institutions. Do you need math or chemistry when you enter the sacred realm? Do you need physics to be accepted in G-D's house? All these subjects serve only the secular sphere. And this is a democratic country.. All sectors should be respected.
8. Poorly worded but makes sense
S Judah ,   jerusalem   (04.12.13)
The comments seem antagonistic,, or is that just YNet headlines. Best to do it through friendly discussion. However nothing wrong is basic secular studies such as maths, afer all the greatest Rabbis were knowlegable and masters in the sciences , maths and languages. By the way the basics are already in many Haredi schools, eg Beit Yaakov, Ma'ayan HaChinuch HaTorani.
9. In Isreali politics common sense doesnt cut it
Al   (04.12.13)
The absurd and the nonsensical wins each and every time. Why the Israeli people put up with this political clownmanship is beyond me. If people are dumb enough not to want to educate their children then the State doesn't have to fund that stupidity. In fact the State ought to lower taxes to the base core and allow people to be as stupid as they wish to be.
10. The voice of darkness
Sagi   (04.12.13)
is heard in our land. # 7
11. finally!! can teach what they want but pay for it alone#7
NI ,   Haifa   (04.12.13)
This is very simple and right. The State and it's working citizens will no longer pay for education which is not according to 21st century demands of life. Nobody stops the orthodox schools from teaching what they want. They will just need to find own funding for it (and will use some math doing that!)
12. # 3 Response
Sagi   (04.12.13)
When they visit Hebron they leave with the impression, and that is the purpose of the visit, that "God" gave us Israel. When they shall visit the Moshavot, they will learn the truth, that is that my forefathers and those of many others gave us Israel. The Moshavot, in case you do not know, were established by the First Aliya, and were the opening gambit in the grand enterprise of "kibbutz Galuyot" and the return home which of course led to the foundation of Israel. Hebron is important, but understanding and respecting those who planted the first seeds, both literally and metaphorically, is by far more important.
13. secular subjects in hareidi schools
ira shleif ,   ny usa   (04.12.13)
Just one question why doesn't minister piron speak english ! He nedver learned it in his school?
14. Core curriculum
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (04.12.13)
In the UK there are about 97 Jewish schools, about 95 of which are nominally Orthodox. Many are state funded, others are independent, BUT all are govt inspected and all teach at at least a minimum a core National Curriculum. When I taught in the independent Visnitz Boys School, we covered English, Maths, Science, History and Geography. The only condition was that all teachers were observant Jewish men. We passed govt inspection every time. The original problem in 19th Century Jerusalem was the scarcity of observant Jewish male teachers that led to the ban on secular studies in the Chadorim. Today that should not be a problem.
15. #7 keren
solomon ,   bklyn   (04.12.13)
Where in the Torah does it say thou shalt not invest? Or thou shalt not increase thy knowledge? You’ve locked yourself into a box you can’t see out of and therefore insist there is nothing else outside.
16. # 7 Keren
Harvey ,   London   (04.12.13)
Keren asks ' do you need maths to enter the sacred realm ? ' Well probably not but you do need it to become an integrated and independent member of society . You need it to join the workforce and take the burden of the taxpayer who has to accommodate and shoulder not just his responsibility to the state but yours too . You need Maths and English to become a serving member of the IDF . Failure to stand shoulder to shoulder with your brothers in arms in order to take on the sacred mantle of protecting the land of Israel and its citizens is more than just divisive , it's an act of criminal folly . There is a place and time to enter the sacred realm . From now on it must be in addition to being a part of the reality of life in the present .
17. Kol HaKavod, Minister
ASTRONAUT ,   SC, USA   (04.12.13)
In Rockland County, NY, a particular PUBLIC School District is overrun by, and amazingly, being GOVERNED by, a School Board majority of haredim. And the taxpayers seem to sit back and allow this farce.
18. #7 keren
aaron ,   toronto,canada   (04.12.13)
You go to the grocery store to buy milk and bread the teller tells you it's $25.00,you ask him how much is the milk and how much is the bread and he says,$3.49 for the milk and $2.50 for the bread,get my point.
19. #7 Torah ve Avodah
Raphael ,   Netanya   (04.12.13)
This was the basic teaching of Rashi. 25% of Nobel price recipients are Jews: this may not last if bearded donkeys grab power.
20. Easy for you to say, you don't have to pay for it
Efi   (04.12.13)
We'll see how enthusiastic you'll be when 2/3 of your country learns things that keeps them from ever working, and 1/3 will end up working to support them. God never intended to have people slave away for other people
21. Divisive and Discriminatory
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (04.12.13)
Mr. Piron is imposing his value system on the Jews. Israel is the home of all Jews, and the State must not interfere with traditional Jewish values. (Whatever happened to separating State from religion?) Why is he not imposing the learning of Torah on the anti-religious and cut off funds to those who don't? Mr. Piron, as with Mr. Bennett, are playing with fire and should be exceedingly careful with what they are doing to the Torah-observant communities in Eretz Yisroel. Their enthusiasm for change has clouded their clear-thinking and level-headedness.
22. Integration
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.12.13)
Integration into the world to work, taxes and service in either the IDF [or other national service] requires basic knowledge. Maths are a part of every day life for all. Understanding the *reason* for national service by all is covered by civics courses. English is a basic too of the business world. All are required for the goal of full integration of ALL Jews into Israeli society.
23. Hurray! Intelligent policy at last!
Dan   (04.12.13)
Now to rescue all the Haredi children trapped in the nightmare of religious indoctrination.
24. This has been a condition since 1949
Avi   (04.12.13)
By 1950 all schools that didn't teach the core material should have been permanently closed. Why is this basic condition, which even the worst third world country out there follows, must be repeated in 2013?
25. #7
Avi   (04.12.13)
Not sure if you're trolling or not but do you realize how increasingly empty that post feels when you post it using an electronic device, on the internet, on a website, using electricity and numerous complicated infrastructures? Yeah you're probably too simple to realize that.
26. They can pay for it and teach it themselves only after schoo
Avi   (04.12.13)
Before that, they WILL go to recognized state funded schools because in this country education for children is mandatory. After school they can go to their rabbi's house for their unsupervised special education.
27. #12
Paul ,   Jerusalem   (04.12.13)
'planted the first seeds'. You got half of it right. The other half you will get when you expand your consciousness beyond the limited historical political narratives that keep us good little citizens to the state. The first seeds lie buried in Hevron, and the only explanation for our present existence in Israel (in spite of the corrupt personal ideology and incompetence of our leaders) is "GOD". There are other ways and means of getting a Jewish citizen to respect the scarfices of another Jew, and it doesn't have to come at the expense of pretending that truth only began in 1948.
28. Actually...
Ahuva ,   Ramat Gan, Israel   (04.12.13)
#7, you DO need maths and some scientific knowledge in the "sacred realm", as both are relevant in discussing certain halachik issues and are used heavily in the Torah and Talmud. #21, there ARE mandatory Jewish studies in non-religious, Israeli public schools -- just not the same content as the religious schools. The reverse (modified core subjects) could certainly be arranged in the Haredi schools and for the record, a lot of them already teach some, if not all, the core subjects...just so you know. Shabbat Shalom!
29. #21
peter ,   tel aviv   (04.12.13)
something you did not get. what separation state and religion. The rabbinic court decides who can marry and who can divorce. The rabbi responsible for the Kotel decides who can pray and who can not. The demand for separation in certain bus lines. Need I go on? So once we do achieve separation of state and religion we can actually each and every one opt which way we want to proceed. As long as institutions funded by the state do not accept the basic rules of the state there should be no funding. You can not have it both ways. Take the money and spurn the common laws. I respect everyone's right to go a different way or have another opinion and I do not want to impose my worldview onto others but this is a two way street. Don't want to follow the basic laws and requirements of the country either leave or look for funding elsewhere. Happy independence day to all of the house of Israel.
30. Not about math, it's about power
R Narz ,   Toronto   (04.12.13)
How exactly does any totalitarian society impose its will on its citizenry? Of course they need to restrict the information available. This is no different than North Korea style propaganda; that is, keeping people ignorant of math and English renders them unemployable and more easily kept under the thumb of the rabbis.
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