News
Minister Piron to haredi schools: No math, no funding
Alon Hadar
Published: 12.04.13, 10:10
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
59 Talkbacks for this article
31. Math, they know math.
michael Pielet ,   israel   (04.12.13)
Piron's ideas and plans are unenforceable. Is he going to place a spy, enforcer in every classroom. Further, my experiience with the haredi community is that they know more "practical, business math" than any other community in the world.
32. Whaaat? Why only Hareidim?
Moshe ,   Lod   (04.12.13)
1. In the US and Canada private institutions are told what they need to teach. They can add other approved material but they can't detract from the core subjects. So why in Israel a "private" school can't be told what to teach. That's dumb. 2. The State can't fund something that goes against its interest? What with all the Arab schools that teach the Nakba and that teach their pupils that they are 1948 Palestinians, etc... Why do we fund them? Why is the Education Ministry not taking full responsibility that the Arab pupils learn just like all the other kids to be good Israeli citizens?
33. No math? No science?
Habib Seliman ,   New York City, USA   (04.12.13)
So what you are telling us is that those of us that have studied math, chemistry, biology, technology are less eligible to to enter the 'sacred realm' or 'be accepted in G-d's house'. Here in America as well as in Israel and other countries there are many women and men who are extremely observant, have Torah knowledge that is as valid as the ultra-orthodox, can enter the sacred realm of Hashem and be accepted in G-D's house, be among the best parents, scientists, physicians, psychiatrists, attorneys, business people, soldiers and human beings. Having a 'secular' education brings us to an even deeper understanding of Hashem's universe which those who do not have a 'secular' education can not even scratch close to. You can not be a light onto the other nations if you live in darkness. It was relevant in the Rambam's time and equally relevant in our time.
34. @31
Doives ,   Ra'anana   (04.12.13)
You don't need spies in every classroom. In Holland the government checks every teacher at least once a year, by randomly sending government officials to different classes. If teacher don't meet the requirements, they can loose their licence to teach. It's as simple as that. This is what these religious schools need.
35. Haredim in USA vs. Israel
steveR ,   dallas usa   (04.12.13)
The Haredim in the USA must teach the core curriculum as well - English, Math, Science, history. If they do not, they can go to jail. In other words, there is absolute coercion. I don't see any Haredi complaining in the US. Israel coddles the Haredi.
36. The Ram'bam cleary states:
Naor ,   USA   (04.12.13)
"he who wishes to attain to human perfection, must therefore first study Logic, next the various branches of Mathematics in their proper order, then Physics, and lastly Metaphysics. He, however, who begins with Metaphysics, will not only become confused in matters of religion, but will fall into complete infidelity." I do not know what religion those who reject the learning of Mathematics and Science claim to be practicing, but it surely is not Judaism.
37. Piron to Haredi schools....
Toledano Jean-Pierre ,   Israel   (04.12.13)
Do it like in Europe, maybe also in the States. To get money from or to be subsidized by the government the primary schools, the lower and upper secondary education institutions must also follow the by the Ministry of Education imposed curriculum: core subjects, included religious or ethic-moral education. You can also add optional subjects: more religion, more sport, etc… So, if you follow the core subjects you get the money and the students their official diploma. If not: no money, no official diploma. But the latter is essential to find a job.
38. Segregated schools creates racist society, integration next
Steve Benassi ,   Silver Bay, MN USA   (04.12.13)
39. Math.,,,, Oy Vey
Ricky ,   The Bronx   (04.12.13)
I dreaded those Quadratic equations, untill I got my first draftsmans appremtiship with an Italian consulting engineering firm. These delinquents shame Moshe's honor, intelligence and gift from HaShem. Moshe was a Master in MATH and ENGINEERING. I'm with Piron,, "No Math no Money",,,,,,,,,period.
40. #37. Maybe they don't want jobs.
Harry Wright ,   UK   (04.12.13)
41. #21 "Divisive and Discriminatory"?
JDE ,   Boston, USA   (04.12.13)
"Mr. Piron is imposing his value system on the Jews. Israel is the home of all Jews, and the State must not interfere with traditional Jewish values. (Whatever happened to separating State from religion?) Why is he not imposing the learning of Torah on the anti-religious and cut off funds to those who don't?? Because it isn't the state's responsibility to religiously indoctrinate children. It *is* the state's responsibility to ensure that all children have the opportunity to become productive citizens. "Mr. Piron, as with Mr. Bennett, are playing with fire and should be exceedingly careful with what they are doing to the Torah-observant communities in Eretz Yisroel. Their enthusiasm for change has clouded their clear-thinking and level-headedness." You wouldn't know clear thinking if it walked up to you and introduced itself. As long as you are content to contribute nothing to society, you should be stripped of your citizenship.
42. #35
JDE ,   Boston, USA   (04.12.13)
"The Haredim in the USA must teach the core curriculum as well - English, Math, Science, history. If they do not, they can go to jail. In other words, there is absolute coercion. I don't see any Haredi complaining in the US. Israel coddles the Haredi." Israel certainly does coddle them, but the Haredim in the US ignore the rules as well. A common tactic in Haredi schools is for the teacher to give the students the answers to questions on standardized tests. They all think it's quite the joke - fooling the "goyishe" government.
43. A Good Education
Adam Neira ,   Paris, France   (04.12.13)
A good curriculum for the State of Israel's students should include the following subjects... The Tanach, especially the Pentatuech ("Five Tools" in Greek.) Hebrew; Arabic; English (Kids can usually learn languages far more easily than calcified adults, lucky for them.) History - Both Jewish and Non-Jewish. Geography Maths Science Music; Sport; Art Other subjects can be added to the curriculum as need be and depending on the age and choices of the students.
44. racisim
abe ,   n.j.   (04.12.13)
this is so undemocratic why r u holding them hostage with your funding trying to force your views upon them why dose funding 4 a Jewish studies in a Jewish state contingent on secular studyies!?
45. there is math connected to the Torah
zionist forever   (04.12.13)
It would be wrong to try force the haredi to start teaching all the same subjects that other schools do because cultural differences must be taken into account but there is no need to neglect math. They need math for everything from making sure they didn't get short changed at the store to counting the Omer. Its ridiculous they were never taught. They should also learn in a supervised atmosphere about computers because not only is it a valuable tool but they can use it to advance their Torah study. You give them a specially modified tablet computer and the students can study Torah on their way to yeshiva Haredi groups like Chabad have embraced technology so maybe its time others did as well as long as the rabbis make sure what they study is approved. As long as the education ministry respects their culture and actually helps them organise and fund things then there is no reason why the haredi cannot study certain core subjects as long as the whole subject is dealt with carefully and not a Lapid style confrontation where its you change and do things my way or else.
46. #7 Really?
Dan ,   Florida - Tel Aviv   (04.12.13)
If you do not need any secular help to get into God's house then you certainly do not need any assistance from the State of Israel. If you want respect you should give respect thus no help of any kind from the state.
47. #7: Not educating haredi or any other child in
Runner1983 ,   USA   (04.13.13)
Math and science is child abuse, pure and simple. Parents who commit this crime should be arrested, and get no welfare payments from the State.
48. No44 Israel is NOT a Jewish state!!!
(04.13.13)
Get real!
49. Haredi children learn math in Heder..
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (04.13.13)
before attending Yeshiva.
50. Finnaly some common sense !
Zionist forever   (04.14.13)
Funding should be stopped immediatly. They are brain washing young minds with all this religious mumbo jumbo and at the end no prospects of joining the workforce or contributing to society. If they want to teach young people such nonsense they should fund it themselves. Time to seperate state from religion.
51. Ora 49 . Maths ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (04.14.13)
1+1 and so . That's no maths Ora ! And , schools who want money need to follow the state program . This was , and is , so in our birth country too .
52. 51 Charles TRY2 Why should...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (04.14.13)
a country of Jefkes be a role model for Israel? I am for Math and Tora study for all israelis. Stop to two antogonist societies. Yes to Am Ehad. Good to see you back,Charles.
53. 43 Adam And humane relations.
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (04.14.13)
54. Ora , it's a SANE model
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (04.15.13)
I'm very busy abroad . Tora studies do not fill the frig , maths do it
55. 54 Charles,man does not live by ...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (04.15.13)
bread alone. Charles, Sei gesund
56. Ora , a man can live without Tora
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (04.15.13)
but not without bread . a very little bit Tora is more than enough . Be happy , for many many years to come
57. 56 Charles " A very little bit Tora" ?
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (04.15.13)
Beware ! Appetite comes with eating.
58. Ora , by eating more you can vomit !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (04.16.13)
59. 58 Charles, I repeat myself...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (04.16.13)
Sei gesund...I mean it.
Previous talkbacks
Back to article